The shaman subsection of the forums

#0 - June 12, 2007, 7:08 p.m.

Ok. Enough, I'm friggin sick and tired of this.

This section of the forums is a disgrace. Most people just come here and mindlessly whine. Decent threads are buried under 5 meters of bull!#%* and garbage of no use whatsoever to the community. WE KNOW. YOU ARE UPSET. Make ONE thread about it and keep it civil.

Then, there's the people who will promptly ignore all constructive issues and all stickies and ask the same questions that could be discovered by themselves in seconds. LEARN TO READ. It's for YOUR own good. The stickies are there for a reason. If they advise XYZ, maybe there is A FRIGGIN REASON!

There are LESS THAN TEN good posters in this forum. It doesn't matter their names, most of them know they are good. They have contributed to the community by testing, by calculating useful stuff. What reward did they get? They are forgotten, their results taken away by time, and their work lost it's point simply because the baboons inhabiting this forum are too busy hurling piles of #"%$ around than to read and understand and play efficiently.

There are a vast number of shamans and nonshamans here that aren't bad posters or good posters. Those can learn from these forums. Let them. Take your misinformation and your crap elsewhere (preferably a trash can) and let this forum be useful to the community as a whole!

My suggestions (which will ofcourse be ignored since the forum sections are all ruled by the same guidelines and because the denizens of the shaman section of the forums do not know know the concept of being civil):
1 thread for mindless whines. Stickied. Anyone whining somewhere else should get the thread deleted.
1 thread (stickied) for important calculations/tests. Just the that and results. Why elemental weapons acts the way it does. What the implications of weapon speed are. What is better hit or crit. Stuff like that.
1 thread for DISCUSSION of the above things.

It would be utopic, but just so friggin helpfull...

Does anyone remember thud's old works for the class? Way older than me here. Few will. Yet he done more to understand this class than many. Give credit to those that deserve it.

Don't agree with a conclusion that has tests/numbers ?: Prove it with tests and numbers. The original conclusion has no tests / numbers? Ask for them. We all gain from this. And if you disagree but can't prove it, either ask for someone else to prove it with your assumptions or STFU! What you think doesn't matter, what is true does! If you can't prove something you think, just saying what you think won't be constructive.

We all know enhancement is having a hard time in PVP. We all know how the lack of CC or proper anti-cc hurts us. So do the devs. Mindlessly reiterating the same thing over and over again will not do anything. If you really want to send a message to the devs: stop playing, cancel your account and tell blizzard why.

Know what the current attitude here in the forums is making? Driving away the decent people. Not only does the class not get richer, the forums get poorer. Our class is viable in PVE, no matter our specc. Enough proof has been given by that. Some endgame guilds take as many hunters as enhancement shamans and/or elemental shamans to their raids. That should give us tips on our viability. Hell, being present in more than one world first kill should have some weight. At least in this we are much better than many classes.

And this is the shaman forum these days... Is this really what is best for us as a class!? Are we gaining anything by acting like this? Newbs who come here asking questions get 50% wrong answers, 25% crap that has nothing to do with what they asked and 25% or less true answers.

Another suggestion for this forum: an ettiquete guide. It is certainly most needed.

And since this new testament is long enough already, I'm gonna stop flipping out and let you guys comment on it. Have fun hurling #"$" around.

Snorkle

Thundgot

#17 - June 13, 2007, 12:08 a.m.

Q u o t e:
You say whining, I say complaints made by members of the community based on the strength of their oppinions and knowledge of the game.

I say both. ;)

Whether people will classify it as whining or not is normally based on whether the thread is made in a constructive way or not. Game knowledge and strong opinions (on either side of the "Shamans pwn/suck" fence) matter little if one can't express it without insults or start bashing anybody showing signs of not agreeing.

Open and constructive discussion benefits everybody, imo. And while we might not involve ourselves too much (no matter what we say, blue word is quoted as "official" for eternity, hence some caution), we do read, collate and forward. For all classes.

Thundgot

#46 - June 13, 2007, 8:58 p.m.

Q u o t e:
People will complain and you can't expect people to be aware of all the issues ever brought up on these forums and therefore it will be a constant reiteration of the whine threads.

I agree that one can't expect everybody to be aware of past posts, and when pointing it out to them one should be nice and understanding about it. However, also when making a new thread on a topic it's very possible to make it non-whiny. :)

Q u o t e:
What's with Thundy? Is it time to show that "we do read these forums" again? So one month without proper moderation and here they come and go on locking spree for one night.

If you feel the forum lacks proper moderation, please use the BioHazard symbol more actively.
I checked all class forums yesterday evening. This was the one calling for some moderation.

Q u o t e:
then Tseric bends us over with

Just quoting this to point out one thing that's a little ironic: you want blue posts on the forum, but some also put the responsibility for changes and the opinion of Blizzard on one CM who was active on the Shaman topics. "We want news, but only good news or we'll hang you to dry" isn't much of an invitation, you know. ;)

You're not scaring us away though. But open-ended posts on hot topics tend to demand more follow-up than we can commit to, hence we're - as said - a little cautious when it comes to posting.

Q u o t e:
I find blue posters on this forum bit too cautious.
Maybe it has something to do with Eyonix / Tseric unlucky episodes, maybe its just some company codex of behaviour , anyways , our communication with you gyus is almost dead. Or heavily one-sided at best.

I can understand that impression, but I'd like to correct one thing: "I find blue posters on this forum[b]s[b] bit too cautious." Plural. It's not the Shaman forum specifically.

Edit: fixing double negation typo

Thundgot

#54 - June 13, 2007, 9:46 a.m.

Q u o t e:
on the US-forums, Kalgan and Tigole haven't even posted anything on the Shaman forums, so why should we trust you?

I don't see that logic at all. "Kalgan hasn't posted on the Shaman forum, so European CMs don't read the European Shaman forum or don't forward feedback"?

Uhm... ok.

Q u o t e:
85% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I'm sure I read somewhere that it's 73.8%.

Thundgot

#85 - June 13, 2007, 3:01 p.m.

Q u o t e:
The point is... Anyone that says that Shaman's shoudnt be buffed is a delusional fool. It's extremely hard to take a fool, THAT serious, je? I even find it hard to no bash him.

Stupidity shouldnt be encouraged...

An excellent example of how not to partake in any constructive discussion; calling anybody not agreeing with your view "delusional fool" and stupid. Even if you're right you should be able to put it forward in a respectful and calm manner. Simple as that.

Q u o t e:
Giving critcism is nessecary for both parts. If we are dissapointed we sure as hell need to say so, else there will never be any changes.

I don't think anybody discouraged criticism or feedback and raising concerns. I believe the thread is about the tone of it.

Q u o t e:
I'd rather try to get some answers out of the CM then listen to you kids

Another example (underline added) of how not to make people listen to you.

Q u o t e:
I think you should reread this part and at least edit the double negation. Otherwise you're pretty much telling us it would be an invitation? :'(

Good catch. I'll edit. :p

Thundgot

#95 - June 13, 2007, 10:19 p.m.

Q u o t e:
I think its funny everytime someone actually goes against the 90% angry shamans and say stop whining blizzard is right there on the spot saying (" YOU ARE THE MAN ")

"He be da troll" in this case, I suppose. But no, I don't agree 100% with him (too much of a rant, imo), and I think I've posted that people on both sides might want to be nicer. "l2p" posts and such aren't exactly helping on the forum mood either.

This thread was just the one with the better replies at the time I chose to reduce the number of threads about this to 1, and I especially wanted to reply to Xolak on page 1 as I agree that classifying everything as "whining" is very wrong.

Q u o t e:
What a good way to avoid answering the questions. The only time we actually get a CM activity on this forum you ignore the constructive questions and avoid them by pointing out useless crap.

You lost me when you claimed it's the first time there's CM activity on this forum. Selective reading, or convenient blindness, is a peculiar condition. :)
This thread is about tone and behaviour on this though, not about the class itself. Please stay on topic.

That said, I think I've made my point on this topic, and will bow out of this particular thread. I simply ask that people think a little more about being constructive, regardless of opinions.

Thank you.

Thundgot

#118 - June 14, 2007, 10:27 a.m.

Just dropping by again quickly to reiterate what others have already mentioned; I'm discussing the forum itself, as it's something I deal with directly, and a constructive and healthy class forum is a great tool for both players and developers (and community managers).

By all means, I fully understand why people may be less than constructive. That doesn't mean I'll resign all forums to that way of communicating, as that would make them stop being this great tool for everybody. And we take the wish for more communication to heart, but please also remember that communication that may not appease and agree is still communication. (The reaction to some posts in the US comes to mind.)

/end