#0 - Feb. 10, 2008, 10:38 a.m.
I've just been going through the replies you made in the 'This is why shamans are angry' topic, and there's some things that bothered me, and some things I agree on you with.
Q u o t e:
So you've posted a thread which compiles all the negative changes from all the patch notes, but conveniently omits all other changes (either neutral or good) - I've seen this in other class forums already so I'm not particularly impressed by it.
Aye, you're very right about this, I think the entire community can say thank you for Water Shield for example. We've complained about mana problems in PvE and we got a water shield which now gives us 50 additional regen. It's a huge gesture to shamans in PvE and I notice my efficiency has taken a nice boost since then. It even gives me some possibilities when fighting 1 vs 1 against certain classes such as warlocks. I've been adding water shield to my tactics with great succes. However, this is just an example of the good things (and yeah, there's been more then 1 good thing) but it doesn't mean there aren’t negative things. Like the shaman side is sometimes ignoring the good things we get, so is the blizzard side ignoring the bad things we get.
If you look at recent changes (forgive me for not posting all of them even though you requested links, this topic would be 5 pages long if I did, and it’s easy enough to look up the past patches) I think all we can say firmly without lying: looking at PvP shamans are one of the most nerved classes. True. TBC gave for example Earth Shield, Shamanistic Rage, etc. which are really nice abilities on themselves. Being resto there’s no way I’d have a chance against some classes without Earth Shield. It’s just a shame there’s a big ‘but…..’ behind it. These are 41 talent point abilities that are too easily neglected by your opponents (5 out of 9 classes dispel, and for ES, you’re facing 3 classes with reduced healing effects) which in nearly all arenas will happen to you. Not to mention that for example the developers want to reduce the amount of charges on ES to 6 and give it a cooldown. Only with at least 75% dispel immunity could I not see this as a major nerf of ES in either PvE or PvP. Looking at the patchnotes I’d like to try and sum up something nice as well as you more or less requested, but 6 charges and a possible cooldown to me completely cancels the usefulness a 30% resistance might give.
I fail to agree with shamans when it concerns PvE though: I still outheal everyone I met (including pre BC in naxx) and I’ve seen enhancement shamans still decorate the nr 1 position in PvE on damage also. Of course your damage is lower then before with the changes to Windfury, but it doesn’t mean you’re worse in PvE then any others, it means you need a bit more skill, after all it can still be done.
Q u o t e:
You then go on to talk about the CMs and how when they get ill it's clearly a conspiracy just to avoid shaman concerns, and how a little bit of mis-communication during a very busy period is a blatant attempt to nerf or deride the shaman class.
A little bit of mis-communication? Don’t get me wrong, I’m really sorry for the CM that he got ill and people should have more understanding for it, but the fact that none of the most mentioned problems have to this date not been addressed in any way the shaman community suggested them says something. Just to name a few: change the elemental 41 point talent so that it’s useful for PvP also (yep, it’s very nice in PvE, I admit that), undispellable or at least partially undispellable shamanistic rage, more then 1 school of magic, instant ghostwolf cast, dispel immunity and / or mana cost reduction on Earth Shield, to mention a few.
Yeah, sure... a resto talent will be added to help resist dispels, but 30% isn’t going to help you a lot of times, it’s also useless when you get a 30 sec cooldown and 6 charges instead, and neither can I see enhancement shamans delving into the resto tree to have ‘benefit’ from this.
All these suggestions can be found easily in the following thread more then once together with argumentation:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1905770707&sid=1
I’m not blaming you for not making the changes for us, I’m blaming the developers. This thread I’ve linked is constructive, and you’ll find the same suggestions made by many players still being unaddressed. In neither of your replies have you denied that our fiercest concerns haven’t been addressed yet.
Q u o t e:
You post no links to threads of any the comments you are referring to, most likely because they are blown way out or proportion or taken out of context, and you put a negative spin on any blue presence that you have been given (I personally remember participating in a very constructive thread on this forum).
Well, I can refer you once again to http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1905770707&sid=1
The fact that this topic was started by a blue poster is highly encouraging. In this thread are many posts all giving the same suggestions. Of course not all players will give you argumentation to any of their suggestions as to why they want to see those changes, but the fact that many players do give argumentation and repeat the same suggestions says something. There are more posts to link, but frankly said, I don’t want to be going through the entire forum just to link some threads when one already can sum most of it up.
For a moment I considered making a top 5 of most suggested changes + the top 5 argumentation for them, but I’m not the one who gets paid for that. Also it takes no clairvoyant to see that this top 5 will give a nice list of unaddressed problems (yeah, sure, 30% dispel immunity is already a nice gesture which I’m sure we all appreciate, but too far away for enhancement to be interesting + too many new disadvantages for earth shield, ok.. admitted, for bloodlust it only has advantages, but I’d like to see myself as more then a party buffer before I die in PvP).
Q u o t e:
Your dissection of each talent tree is fair enough, though again it's completely negatively written and only picks up on what is wrong with each build. I'd like to see a bit more about why you think these abilities are a problem and not so much about "QQ, this is a problem for us."
I’m sorry to say this yet again, but if the argumentation in the constructive thread otherwise known as http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1905770707&sid=1 + the many flaming threads about why something doesn’t work isn’t enough, then what more can we do? Let me give an example:
5 out of 9 classes are dispelling a 41 point 900 mana talent, which if it were up to the developers even got a 30 sec cooldown. We have no CC abilities, and no counter CC abilities, for a resto shaman Earth Shield is a very strong hope of survival to keep you alive while you get interrupted / CCed.
How much more concrete then this can we get? Should we be posting 100s of movies to illustrate this? And honestly, the 30% dispel immunity won’t protect it most of the time (this is basic maths) + the fact that the developers want to reduce the amount of charges and add a cooldown can hardly be seen as a hope of surviving even a second longer, but rather shorter.
Q u o t e:
Although this kind of micro-level discussion is what these forums are for, it has been said that we are not aiming for game balance at specific talent spec levels. As long as each class is able to be reasonably involved in every aspect of the game then things are going pretty well.
Feel free to look up the statistics of shamans in 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3 teams and then explain to me how the statistics there are supposed to tell me that we’re ‘reasonably’ involved in ‘every’ aspect of the game. Not that we’re the only class that’s bad off (mage for example) but still…
Q u o t e:
I understand that you are upset and have valid concerns over the class that you like or want to play, but this post is showing one side of one part of a very long story about a much bigger picture.
Thanks, I appreciate that, and I know it’s not you who makes the decisions on what to change. So let me say something positive which I said earlier, I’m happy with my class in PvE (I’ll gladly explain to the other shamans more elaborately should you like), but PvP still is a nightmare as a shaman, many of us have actually quit that aspect of the game cause of it. And yes, many players play shamans because the class itself has some really interesting abilities that makes it more interesting to us then other classes to play. This doesn’t mean that changes made to your own and other classes can’t kill the fun you had playing your class in a given situation.
PS: I’d gladly hear the other side if you’re referring to Blizzard’s side of it, if you mean PvE, then yep, I’m happy with my class in PvE.
