Stating the obvious, once again Kalgan..

#0 - Oct. 1, 2006, 1:20 p.m.
Blizzard Post
As Quantumdelta so clearly stated in his open challenge to the lead developer Kalgan there are serious concerns about the paladin class. Although im not going to go into circulating rumors about Kalgans despise for the paladin class i would expect that even if this was true this would not affect development of the paladin class.

But now, did i say development? I personally had high hopes for TBC changes, i somewhat blurry imagined a kind of new review. Talents are presented and what do we see?

At first for myself i very much appreciated the holy tree since my paladin is solely used for raiding since a while back. The holy shock was not changed which i think it should be, but albeit we got a nice enhancement to our spelldamage and healing and a debatebly good 41 point talent.

The protection tree is now more or less a valid tanking tree which also will be strengthened with consecration being a basespell and other abilities that we get in form of mana regen by heals and so on. The retribution tree is still somewhat of a joke. I see a 41 point talent that is an a raidbuff with 2% extra crit on an enemy.

Is this some way of trying to force raids to have 1 (ONE) melee paladin? Is this the developers best way to actually get a paladin "in the thick of things" as we were supposedly meant to be? Is this an irony which i have yet not understood?

In the midst of these talents and a community that either half like or half disklike them suddenly blizzard decides to actually give us some nerfs. Our 41 point holy talent is nerfed to only last for 10 seconds as in comparison to the old 20, and oh.. now its on a 3 minute cooldown?! Now i can actually maybe get 4 flash of lights away for half the mana cost, an irony that actually speaks as for how little eventual developers know about the paladin class in concepts of raiding and pvp.

I would like to know if there has been an extensive review of the paladins or if these changes and added talents are somehow an attempt to cover up some bruises that weve clearly gotten in the last time. Yes the developers decide that our divine shield should through talents be put to a shorter cooldown and no attack time increase, thats good? But oh no, in pvp where it is used in a variety of ways we suddenly decide to make it dispellable by priests?

I know this dispel costs mana, has casting time and whatever. Have you even considered the new form of pvp that this is to be used in? Arena contests, 5 vs 5 and what have you. This is going to be a very nice thing when you pop your shield, 1.5 secs later its dispelled and you lost all your defense all of a sudden. As in response to the communitys rage towards this change, our new "blue poster that comes here to act like blizzard listens" actually says:

Q u o t e:
Also try to see what exactly is proposed here - it's a level 70 priest spell that takes over a thousand mana to cast. As the previous poster said, the blood elf paladins will have the blood elf racial to use as well.


Is this irony? Is this a joke? Having a blue post in the (as it yet still is) alliance paladin forum of how horde is going to get countermeasures against this? Did we get a response to this clumpsy excuse? No we did not, and this is since we never get excuses. Paladins are the scrap pile of world of warcraft. We are one of the most, if not the one, mocked classes in game. We are the loladins, we are the healnoobs, cleansebots, buffbots that every one loves to take loot away from, piss on and actually dislike. The pally love is little, i have experienced it though, but when were away from a raid (i remember a 1.9 strike once) all of a sudden everyone cries rivers. "Where are my buffs? Kings plx!".

Blizzard hasnt given us a talent expansion, review or whatever. Blizzard has once again stated that they do not know, now or before, what to do with paladins. We are a class few wants to touch, change or even give possibilites to choose its own direction. We have gotten poor itemization, a poor review, a poor response to our suggestions, wishes and hopes.

The paladin community is one of the most active in regards as to giving suggestions, making petitions, trying to give something to the developers as they clearly seem to have no idea what so ever of what they should do with their dear bubbleboys.

Kalgan should take his responsibility. He is a lead developer of the biggest mmorpg in the world. What is given to us? Currently nothing. Who thinks guilds will actually say "yeah lets get that 2% extra crit on this boss, paladin get in there"? What viable pvp alternatives do we have exept low damage output and a now nerfed survivability? Does anyone consider the paladin as an interactive and fun class to play? Have you ever considered while tossing flash heals by spamming 1-2 buttons on a boss that what you actually are doing is the result of a poor developed class?

I hope that the blizzard developing team would actually sit down and without giggling between their half hearted, unknowingly and shady perception of this class ask themselves: What are we doing with the paladins? What do we know of them and what do they think?

I want blue posts that actually contain a response, like veneras actually allowing a critique of blizzard to go on (thank you for that). I want paladins to be viewed upon as a class, not a halfclass with one reason to bring them to a raid: buffs.

In the footsteps of Quantumdelta i want a response from Kalgan or any of the developers what their views upon the paladin class is. We stand infront of The Burning Crusade which gives them enormous opportunities to change anything they want, but hey.. obviously they dont want anything changed.

If the paladin as it stands now is what the developers think it should be this is this games most poor class. I am talking post-expansion here, and both in pvp and pve. Give us something blizzard, anything at all. You are looking at a hungry community that would be satisfied with crums. We want something blizzard and you are the ones to give it to us.

/ Lebennin
#56 - Oct. 4, 2006, 5:06 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
He could at least actually reply in a thread and say "Interresting discussion, your concerns are noted". But hey, what can you really expect?
/ Leb


Kalgan won't post on the European forums, he's one of the lead designers in the US.

We, the European CM:s, read these forums though and forward the feedback you have. It IS an interesting discussion and we do note your concerns, but at the moment we still have to try out the new talents and spells in the Alpha and Beta test.
#87 - Oct. 5, 2006, 4:31 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
And how many CM:s have actually leveled a paladin to 60 and after that played it to any extensive amount? I mean i know you play one (or at least claim to do so) but it doesnt matter if the CM:s dont have any understanding of the class which you only get by actually spending time with it.

We have paladin players in the European CM team, and a few of the developers play palas (it is a myth that Blizzard hates you paladins).

Q u o t e:
As for you Ommra i only hope that you actually finish your paladin and can give some valuable feedback to the developers.

Indeed I will, but it will take some time. I have played a paladin in the alpha test, but I want to wait for the expansion to level up a character to 60 on my own playing account, so that it can be a character I can keep and develop for a long time. A deeper knowledge about a class will of course help to forward your opinions to the developers, but I still think I can read what you all think and send it on even before I have a level 60. So I hope you will be patient and wait for me to level up to 60 :)

Q u o t e:
if he is not reading european forums at all, he fails at being a lead developer.

Not really, it’s not his job to read the European forums. It is my job to read the forums for him (and the other developers/game designers in the US) and compile your most important views and give to them. So I hope you will continue giving constructive feedback (key word here is “constructive”, just random posts saying “omg my class is unplayable and blizz hates us” won’t really help).
#121 - Oct. 9, 2006, 3:57 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
I do hope that you mean level 70. And its very nice to hear that youre planning to level it all the way up, but i do realize that this is not your chosen class. Lets hope that you actually finish, some other CM:s never got that far but you seem determined.

Umm, yes I meant level 70… ;) I have played to level 36 in the alpha test, but I want to level up a character that I will be able to keep so I will wait for the expansion before leveling to 70. Sorry, but I just can’t make myself roll an alliance paladin right now (I want to be able to play with my friends in my horde guild, and I don’t know anyone I can play with on alliance side. I play on my spare time for fun, so I hope you can understand this and wait for me – and hopefully give me some advice on the way :-)).

Q u o t e:
We deserve some answers for all the effort we put in giving comments, suggestions, critique and all. We deserve someting back, a part of which you have given and have the possibility to give even more of.

I have read the threads here about Class Concerns and TBC Suggestions (for example, there are other interesting threads as well) and have tried to summarize your main concerns:

- You are clearly unhappy with Mass Dispel dispelling your shield (who could have missed that?). One suggestion from you is to add a 31 point talent which will stop Divine Shield being dispelled by any spell or effect.
- You are unhappy with the 41 talent points, especially the Holy tree and Retribution tree (Divine Illumination lasts too short and has too long cooldown compared to Holy Shock that only has 30 sec cooldown, Sanctified Crusader gives too little extra damage, to summarize what you feel is wrong with it).
- Move Improved Divine Shield from the Protection tree, since tanking will be more difficult with a spell that removes aggro like the shield does.

I know this is just a few of the suggestions you have made, so feel free to post more (concrete) input as well. If I am allowed to give some criticism to you as well, I have to say that browsing through these forums isn’t the easiest… There are a lot of posts with complaints but without anything concrete – like what exactly is wrong and what do you want instead.

I can’t promise that I will be able to give a reply to these concerns, but whenever I get new information I will give it to you.

Q u o t e:
Sorry to give you a workload here Ommra, but taking on the Paladins concerns is a big job, and anyone whose ever tried launching themselves into it either went the wrong way about it or simply gave up/went insane

I won’t give up, and we’ll see about the going insane part…
#123 - Oct. 9, 2006, 4:09 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
As much as i love you Ommra, and i do! honestly, for trying if nothing else, why cant we have someone reading these forums that has infact played a paladin and plays a paladin at present. I dont think its much to ask and it would make alot of things alot easier both for you and us.

We don't have assigned class CM:s for all the classes (we are only five CM:s in the English team, so you do the math). We don't have to play the class to be able to read your suggestions and send them on, I just want to play a paladin because I am extra interested. It's nothing absolutely needed for the CM duties, it's just an extra bonus.

The paladin player in the community team is in the German team, but he's only one desk away ;) I assure you I am asking him for advice whenever it's needed.
#127 - Oct. 9, 2006, 4:45 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
ok ok ommra
but please play like every1 else and not with: /get xxxxx gold /get best items etc

Hrrm, common misconception it seems. When CM:s/GM:s play in our spare time we do it on normal play accounts, just like everyone else. No special powers or any advantages at all.
Q u o t e:
Im not having a go at you, I know you are one busy little CM seen you on about 5 different forums now, BUT are you seriously telling us that out of the entire European Blizzard team only one person is actually assigned a specific class?

No one is assigned to a specific class.
#164 - Oct. 12, 2006, 8:57 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Just a short reply:

As some of you already have seen the 41 Retribution talent has been changed to Crusader Strike:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/paladin/talents.html

I have sent on other concerns as well as I mentioned in my previous post, and am reading your input on that (and will add your comments once I have read through them properly).

Until later,

goodnight!
#167 - Oct. 12, 2006, 9:27 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

Ommra,
Is it an extra attack or a does it just add 40% holy damage to your next attack?


This is what Kalgan says about Crusader Strike:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=31053701&pageNo=5&sid=1#82

It doesn't really answer your question, but... (if I would answer it would only be my personal guess, and that wouldn't really help. If I can get a clear answer I'll post it).

Ok, goodnight for real this time!