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Regional Flag4.2 Biggest PVE Nerf ever?Source
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Provaporous
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#1 - 2011/05/03 07:49:00 PM
Many crowd control abilities no longer cause creatures to attack players when they are cast. The creature will not attack the player when the crowd control wears off, and nearby creatures will not become hostile to the player either. However, if a visible player gets too close to the target creature, the creature will remember and attack the player when the crowd control effect wears off. The intent is to make it easier for dungeon groups to manage crowd control assignments and pulling packs of hostile NPCs. The abilities affected by this change are: Hibernate, Entangling Roots, Wyvern Sting (will still cause hostility when it begins to deal damage), Freezing Trap, Polymorph, Repentance, Shackle Undead, Blind, Hex, Bind Elemental, Banish, Seduction.

No coordination is needed for clearing trash in instances anymore, why even have trash anymore, just make the whole dungeon/raid bosses!

If this change goes live, assuming that each DPS and possibly the healer can CC, every pull of trash will be one mob at a time, setup way ahead of the pull just to be leisurely aggro'd by the tank.
Gone will be the coordination of planning the attack of the enemies facing your group.

Is this a good idea? In my opinion this will take all the challenge out of 5 man dungeons and raids. Rouges used to be valued for their unique ability to sap and setup one mob for a pull, that always made a pull easier, imagine everyone in the group with that ability.
>>>>Homogenization anyone?<<<<

Maybe Blizz really wants the game to be a faceroll and to be only about gearing people up for raid content. I know a few people in my guild share these thoughts, I was wondering what the rest of the community thinks about this.

I started the game near the end of ICC raid content and the content of the game I've enjoyed the most is the Zul'Aman remake with its focus on teamwork compared to the dissaster of ease that plagued WOTLK content. I'm worried that the game is starting to navigate back towards that easiness for the sake of pleasing people who don't want to learn how to be better players.

tl/dr
blizz is ruining the game by caving in to casuals who say ZA/ZG are too hard and need a nerf

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Community Manager
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#59 - 2011/05/03 11:13:00 PM
Oh, the hyperbole! I firmly believe kittens around the world are now crying because of the doom and gloom in this post. Is this what you wanted? Do you want to make kittens worldwide suffer? That's what happens when you make hyperbolic statements. The cat population dies off from despair.

Many crowd control abilities no longer cause creatures to attack players when they are cast. The creature will not attack the player when the crowd control wears off, and nearby creatures will not become hostile to the player either. However, if a visible player gets too close to the target creature, the creature will remember and attack the player when the crowd control effect wears off. The intent is to make it easier for dungeon groups to manage crowd control assignments and pulling packs of hostile NPCs. The abilities affected by this change are: Hibernate, Entangling Roots, Wyvern Sting (will still cause hostility when it begins to deal damage), Freezing Trap, Polymorph, Repentance, Shackle Undead, Blind, Hex, Bind Elemental, Banish, Seduction.

No coordination is needed for clearing trash in instances anymore, why even have trash anymore, just make the whole dungeon/raid bosses!

If this change goes live, assuming that each DPS and possibly the healer can CC, every pull of trash will be one mob at a time, setup way ahead of the pull just to be leisurely aggro'd by the tank.
Gone will be the coordination of planning the attack of the enemies facing your group.

Is this a good idea? In my opinion this will take all the challenge out of 5 man dungeons and raids. Rouges used to be valued for their unique ability to sap and setup one mob for a pull, that always made a pull easier, imagine everyone in the group with that ability.
>>>>Homogenization anyone?<<<<

Maybe Blizz really wants the game to be a faceroll and to be only about gearing people up for raid content. I know a few people in my guild share these thoughts, I was wondering what the rest of the community thinks about this.

I started the game near the end of ICC raid content and the content of the game I've enjoyed the most is the Zul'Aman remake with its focus on teamwork compared to the dissaster of ease that plagued WOTLK content. I'm worried that the game is starting to navigate back towards that easiness for the sake of pleasing people who don't want to learn how to be better players.

tl/dr
blizz is ruining the game by caving in to casuals who say ZA/ZG are too hard and need a nerf


It sounds like you're rockin' in this expansion. Presumably you even have an organized group of players with whom you play regularly. Maybe you even use vent so that marking and pulling targets is second nature. Perhaps if others aren't on your level of experience or play, they deserve to fail. Serves them right.

We disagree.

Dungeon Finder has suffered in Cataclysm because many of the Heroics are quite difficult for uncoordinated groups. That point is almost impossible to dispute. Some of the more elite players may say, “Good! Dungeon Finder was a stupid idea.” If you don’t adhere to that argument -- and we don’t -- there are basically two choices: make the dungeons so easy that they don’t require communication, or make the communication easier. We like for dungeons to be challenging, but we don’t like when the challenges are logistical in nature. You still need to know which targets to CC, which creatures are immune to which forms of CC, make sure you don’t break the CC, etc. And that is ignoring all of the many ways to fail that aren’t related to CC (such as say most boss encounters).

Related, even with Call to Arms, tanks are often in highest demand for Dungeon Finder, and we think this is largely because tanks are expected to lead and set the pace of a dungeon run. It’s a ton of responsibility. A tank I work with said recently, “I don’t even mind doing all that, but it’s just such a pain to have to manually mark targets every single pull while the other players just wait around for me to tell them what to do.” With this change, there is less need to sit down and try to communicate about which is the sheep target and which is the trap target. And if someone CC’s the wrong thing, there is more chance for recovery. It’s the way Sap has worked for years, and you don’t generally see players calling for groups with 3 rogues just to make the trash that much easier.

We promise that the average group will still wipe in dungeons even with this change. We have plenty of data to back that up that supposition.

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Community Manager
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#75 - 2011/05/03 11:25:00 PM
Oh, the hyperbole! I firmly believe kittens around the world are now crying because of the doom and gloom in this post. Is this what you wanted? Do you want to make kittens worldwide suffer? That's what happens when you make hyperbolic statements. The cat population dies off from despair.



You're not helping your argument :p

You should know me by now. The irony was intentional. :)

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Community Manager
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#79 - 2011/05/03 11:28:00 PM
Fear functions very differently. It's a bit wonky to allow a target to run around aimlessly under the effects of Fear and not drawing aggro from anyone. What we might do is add this CC change specifically to the Glyph of Fear.

05/03/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Rinnae
The part I don't like is that they didn't bother to include Fear.

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Community Manager
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#84 - 2011/05/03 11:30:00 PM
05/03/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Droskee
Thats great bro. Everybody else disagrees with you.

Damn. Did I forget to cast my ballot in the recent election in which the global community nominated you as their speaker? :)

Edit: bro.

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Community Manager
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#89 - 2011/05/03 11:32:00 PM
05/03/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Droskee
Not me. I think the skull speaks the truth.

You agree with the specific part I quoted where he said that being unskilled doesn't mean you should lose? So anybody should do anything, regardless of skill?

Someone needs to take away your keyboard until you're better able to read the explicit meaning in sentences without implying whatever you want in order to be contrary.

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Community Manager
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#94 - 2011/05/03 11:37:00 PM
Perhaps if others aren't on your level of experience or play, they deserve to fail. Serves them right.

We disagree.

Fine, if you want to argue what was clearly stated I am fine with that. These 3 sentances here are what I was talking about. The topic was about CC, and either you can do CC or you can't. There is no varying level of skill involved with CC. So, if you aren't as good as somebody that CAN CC then that means that you CAN'T CC. This change makes it so that everybody can CC no matter what because there isnt a chance to mess up anymore. Therefore, what I said about skill not playing a role anymore is completely valid.

Okay. Thanks for your input. :)

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Community Manager
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#167 - 2011/05/04 12:31:00 AM
05/03/2011 05:29 PMPosted by Speedenbull
Fear functions very differently. It's a bit wonky to allow a target to run around aimlessly under the effects of Fear and not drawing aggro from anyone. What we might do is add this CC change specifically to the Glyph of Fear.
If I remember right there is one for locks that stop mobs and players from running a way.But lol why fear if your playing a lock lowest lvl dot takes them out of fear not like most every other classes CC .

What you're referring to is Glyph of Fear. :)