#0 - Nov. 27, 2006, 11:29 p.m.
Link to original post:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=88339094&sid=1
Remade post:
TBC Dispellable Paladin abilities:
Greater Blessing of Wisdom.
Greater Blessing of Light.
Greater Blessing of Kings <Talent>.
Greater Blessing of Might.
Greater Blessing of Salvation (Kinda irrelevent to the point of this post but for completeness).
Greater Blessing of Sanctuary.
Blessing of Wisdom.
Blessing of Light.
Blessing of Kings <Talent>.
Blessing of Might.
Blessing of Salvation.
Blessing of Sanctuary <Talent>.
Blessing of Sacrifice.
Blessing of Freedom.
Blessing of Protection.
Hammer of Justice.
Repentence <Talent>.
Seal of Light.
Seal of Wisdom.
Seal of Justice.
Seal of the Crusader.
Seal of Command <Talent>.
Seal of Righteousness.
Divine Favour <Talent>.
Judgement of Light.
Judgement of Wisdom.
Judgement of Justice.
Judgement of the Crusader.
Lay on Hands <Talent> (Buff left on target after cast).
Holy Shield <Talent>.
Righteous Fury. (Again completeness).
Divine Shield.
Seal of Vengeance.
Seal of Blood.
Avenging Wrath.
Divine Illumination.
TBC Non-dispellable Paladin abilities:
Devotion Aura.
Concentration Aura.
Retribution Aura.
Fire Resistance Aura.
Frost Resistance Aura.
Shadow Resistance Aura.
Sanctity Aura <Talent>.
TBC Abilities that are unknown;
Reckoning.
Abilities that gives the opponent the chance to shut down our entire character for up to 10 seconds:
Holy Light.
Flash of Light.
Hammer of Wrath.
Summon Charger.
Summon Warhorse.
Our entire class, now has only one reliably spell, Lay on Hands (non-talented).
Is this really balanced Kalgan?
Alright:
Can someone please explain to me how a Paladin is now meant to hold up to a shadow priest?
Can someone please explain to me what a Paladin is meant to actually do in Group PvP?
Cuz as far as I can see they can do nothing reliably.
And that's what PvP is about, Kalgan.
It's about control and countermeasures.
Sure, we Paladins all knew that Divine Shield was one of the only two things in the game that could not be countered.
But what do we have that reliably counters other people in group vs group situations?
Hmm?
PvP Trinket remove Stuns.
Damage breaks our 31 point talent in retribution which is our only other crowd control.
Both are Dispellable.
How can you justify all this?
So what options does a Paladin get left to if the opponents they're facing chooses to take him apart first?
Heal? - Kicked.
Stun? - Dispelled.
Bubble? - Dispelled.
Do Mediocre damage? - Dispelled.
So what do you expect these players to do Kalgan?.
Sit there and take the beating whilst our entire defensive and offensive combat system have been completly shut down by two people (One if they're specced right)?
No other class has to put up with that.
So where is our way out Kalgan? Show me how we are supposed to stand a chance. Show me you actually understand what Player vs Player combat at the highest echelon of play is all about.
Because you don’t see the big picture.
The mana cost is irrelevant at lvl 70, the 1.5 second cast time is also irrelevant because its so short. The Range is irrelevent.
The Simple fact that the ability even exists is too big of a problem.
So tell me, how is a Paladin meant to play now?
Come on, you seem to know what you're doing, come tell this - one of the most experience Paladins in Europe what he's missing.
I'm sure I can throw a couple of grenades, and try to kite my opponents around spamming cleanse on myself to keep the movement impairing effects off because I can't even BoF myself. Oh wait I can't cleanse UA or MF, because I'll get screwed by one and the other can't be dispelled.
Oh whats that? can't be dispelled?!
You mean it's morely reliable, and the only way to stop it is to have someone kick counterspell or some other fashion a priest who has no PW:S up?
So please explain yourself Kalgan, explain how it's fair that a player can "Power up" even in their nerfed state and kill a non-immune target in 2 seconds (1 2 second cast and one PoM cast).
Explain to me how Immo + CoA + Corr + UA + SBs is balanced Kalgan.
Cuz you sure are not making any sense.
Explain to me how 4 Rank 1 + 1 max Rank Shadow Word Pains stacks up full power Shadow Weaving, and mana burn is so easily deployable there's nothing a Paladin can do about it Kalgan.
Explain to me how a Paladin is supposed to be able to beat a hunter that repeatedly uses feigndeath + frosttrap in the same macro when standing at your feet being hit in the face and still not going into combat getting you in the frost trap and eating to full Kalgan.
Explain to me how a Paladin is supposed to counter poly+drink/eat with the eventuality that bubble and trinket are both going to end up on cooldown Kalgan.
Explain to me how a Paladin is supposed to counter 2 full duration fully dotted up fears and 2 night fall procs in the same engagement Kalgan.
Explain to me how a Paladin is supposed to counter a rogue who is spamming restealth or content to burn his timers on you (assuming the best gear), Kalgan.
Explain to me how a Paladin with equal gear to a maxed out warrior is supposed to weather off the insanely amount of damage they do whilst bringing their 5.5-6k hp unbuffed down to zero, Kalgan.
Some of these fights are possible wins for us, others are simply not.
and you wish to take the only thing we genuinely excel at away?
You wish to decimate our GvG reliability, I see?
Well I've asked a few questions here that I expect will go un-answered.
However I don't expect these questions to go un-answered for the reasons that most of these people will: That you don't care, I expect them to go un-answered because you don’t know the answers to these questions, because you do not have the experience of PvP at the level you seem to be assuming you can make haphazard changes that (I at least don’t think you tested properly) removes our classes final mid-term timer reliable ability.
Congratulations. If this change goes ahead I'm out of here when BC turns up.
The last reliable ability we had, gone.
How does a Developer, or Developer team defend the fact that allowing people to make their character completely useless for an extended period of time is 'enjoyable' or 'balanced' ?
Will Paladins be getting any dispensation for all this?
Your 41 point paladin talents are rather weak, your entire offerings to the Paladin class has been weak since day one.
If you really want to prove to us you actually care about what we think you will answer these concerns brought up here, and show you understand our concerns and our frustrations, and how it feels when you fight someone who knows how to completely neuter you.
But you probably won’t show as you never done before.
Prove me wrong, just try it.
