@ Chris Metzen & Alex Afrasiabi

#0 - Aug. 31, 2007, 10:20 a.m.

During the Lore panel for BlizzCon '07, the two of you discussed your desire for the world of Azeroth to be more immersive, and for the story to be brought to the forefront. You wanted characters who were more believable, relevant, and vibrant.

I am also in the storytelling business as a professional screenwriter. And as storytellers, it is a key goal of ours to ensure our audience lose themselves in the story... for them to forget they're reading a script, or playing a game.

It sounds complex, but there are obviously many simple steps towards accomplishing this.

In screenwriting, one of them is not referring to the camera.

"A man steps into an old house. He hears a roar and turns to see a zombie charging towards him with an axe. The camera pulls back to show--" Reading this sentence, the reader sees a man, an old house, a zombie, then a camera!?? WTH where'd that come from!? Oh, that's right... it's just a movie. I'm reading a script.

This is exactly what you don't want.

For World of Warcraft, it has its own simple solution:

Acknowledgment.

If you wish for your players to feel more immersed in the world of Azeroth, then they need to feel relevant.
And for the players to feel relevant, they need their roles acknowledged in that world by the NPC's.

It's a simple concept (simple enough that it might sound humorous), but it would go a long way toward achieving the goals you said you wish to accomplish.

Let's look at an example. Take Thrall and the players' relation to him.

I, Cocles, have killed Onyxia; I have killed Nefarian. I have dumped both of their heads at the Warchief's feet, yet he still doesn't know who I am when I show up for later quest lines done in BC. Why doesn't Thrall recognize me as the slayer of Onyxia? He who defeated Nefarian!! Why? Oh that's right, "Because it's just a game." And once again, that's exactly what you don't want your audience to feel when they're experiencing lore.

Thrall should know me. Thrall should be glad to see me.

Throughout WoW, particular quests should be flagged and an internal mark made on one's character when they complete that quest.

Think of how immersive it would be if you were to step into Outland and have Nazgrel look at you and say, "When I sent word to Orgrimmar that we needed more troops, I never dreamed they would send the slayer of C'thun himself to aid us. You will be a great asset to us Cocles, and I am glad to see you here!"

Had I not killed C'thun, or done anything else of note, Nazgrel could instead look me up and down and say, "Well grunt, let's see what you're made of."

The NPC's reacts differently depending on what key quests I have completed in the game.

On top of that, NPC's should react differently based on our rep. I am not talking about a bigger discount, or more quartermaster rewards. I am talking about having Hamuul Runetotem recognize exalted members of the Cenarion Circle and (in text) address them by name.

Hamuul, "The Earth-Mother smiles, Cocles. You are a druid who's reputation precedes you. How may I be of service?"

When the story's own characters do not acknowledge a player's role within that story, it rips the player out of the story by reminding them it's just a game. It reminds them that their actions are largely irrelevant. It destroys the fantasy.

This isn't RP stuff. This is lore immersion. It's PVE.

One final example. One that I see forthcoming with WOTLK: Tirion Fordring. (Spoilers incoming)

Those of us who did Tirion's quest-line in the plaguelands tried to assist him in reconciling with his son. We were there when his son died. We were there when Tirion avenged his death. And we were there when he swore to re-establish the Silver Hand. To meet Tirion again in Northrend and have him not recognize who we are is almost humorous.

Tirion, "Hail adventurer! Have you come to serve the Silver-Hand?"
Cocles, "Tirion, it's me, Coc. I was there when your son died. Heck, I was the only witness when you made your oath to restore the Silver Hand."
Tirion "Doesn't ring a bell. I need you to kill ten ghouls!"

Tirion should react differently depending upon whether or not we completed his previous quest chain. I know I'm repeating myself, but hopefully I'm being clear.

Unlike movies where the audience is only an observer, MMORPG's allow the audience to play a lead role. But for that player to truly feel immersed, he or she must feel relevant. Acknowledgment is a big, yet straight-forward step toward accomplishing this. The world becomes more immersive, the story stays in the forefront, and the characters become more believable, relevant, and vibrant.

See you in Northrend!

-C-

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Update - 8/31/07 - On page 13 I responded to several frequent replies:

Wow. I may have written the OP, but it's all of you and your replies that get the OP noticed. Thank you, and special thanks to the "Coc should work for WoW" posts. ;) If they ever need another experienced story guy, I'm open. ;)

As Kisirani, and other developers have mentioned in the past, within development there is a metaphorical "table". It's crowded and limited in size, and the goal of any thread like this one is to have Blizzard ask, "Should we make room on the table for this issue?" Blizzard's resources may be large, but, at the end of the day, they still have a limit. Therefore priority must be made.

"Immersion through Acknowledgment" is not a concept that must be implemented in one fell swoop. Priority within the concept itself can be made, and quite frankly, should be made.

There is past content.
There is present content.
And there is future content (in development).

Several posters have pointed out that "Immersion through Acknowledgment" is already being experimented with and exercised in current and future content.

Much of the debate has been over whether to implement it in past content.

While this would be great, I'd like to point out that there is a fourth category of content that has yet to be directly mentioned.

While it may sound cheesy, I don't know how else to say it: Timeless content.

Thrall, Rexxar, Tirion. The faction leaders. The class mascots. The celebrities of WoW. These are the characters we experienced in the past. Experience now. And will experience again in future expansions. If you were to pinpoint where "Immersion through Acknowledgment" is still most needed, this would be it. Thrall should know who I am. ;)

Adding acknowledgment from these key characters, not only makes them more believable, relevant, and vibrant; it strengthens the game's story and affects all categories of the game's content. Past, Present, and Future.

Start with this, then go from there. Through prioritization within the concept it self, it's easier to find space on the table.

Thanks again for the overwhelming response. And as an old-school druid myself, Kisirani, it's great to see you here.

-C-

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Update 10-16-07
Due to the popularity of this thread I've decided to start a blog dedicated to game lore (and perhaps later a forum). Who knows if it'll go anywhere, but I wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback that convinced me to give it a shot. http://loregy.com

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Update 08-15-08
The thread got bumped today by someone then promptly locked a few hours later. I'm guessing because it hit the 20 page limit. I've created part 2 here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9023723141&sid=1

Kisirani

#89 - Aug. 31, 2007, 6:55 p.m.

I am neither Chris Metzen nor Alex Afrasiabi, but I do work on things of this nature in the game from time to time, so I hope I'll be a fitting substitute for the nonce. ;)

This is something we've already started to do a little more of with the advent of Burning Crusade, as people have mentioned in the thread. The Skyguard and Ogri'la factions are excellent examples of the attitude changing as you progress and become familiar with them, and one or two have mentioned the acknowledgment given by the Cenarion guards in Outland when you become exalted.

The ability to do it is there, and as we've demonstrated, it's something we're interested in doing. You have to understand, naturally, that this sort of content, while fantastic and something I adore, is something that ranks lower in priority than, say, ensuring the game mechanics are in place and functional. This is icing on the cake -- we have to bake the cake first. You may not see it for everything you might want, therefore, but it is something we try to include when we have the time.

Going back and retrofitting the old world to acknowledge certain accomplishments in that way is a rather mammoth task, and we have no plans at current to do so. Moving forward, however, this is indeed something we plan to continue including on new content, provided time permits.

Kisirani

#97 - Aug. 31, 2007, 7:07 p.m.

Q u o t e:

You say you want people to go back to the old world every now and then and you use the 'no Auction House in Shatt or Dalaran' to justify it, but you won't do something as simple as this? Jesus Christ man.

Our definition of "simple" differs from yours. I do not consider writing hundreds of thousands of lines of text "simple," but that may be me. :)

Kisirani

#135 - Aug. 31, 2007, 8:03 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Cake is nothing but a delivery system for icing.. Ponder that.

But said cake is still a necessary and important foundation, requiring the majority of time to mix just so and bake. Without it, you just have a formless glob of frosting, and as the bakers are in the cake-making business, that isn't the product they're after.

...now this analogy has gone too far, and I want cake.

Kisirani

#145 - Aug. 31, 2007, 8:18 p.m.

Q u o t e:

While you can consider it icing on the cake, if you reconsidered it to be part of the cake you would be able to avoid the painstaking work to go back and preform retrofitting work. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you guys are moving in the right direction, but if its always kept as an afterthought thats all it will ever amount to.

By keeping it as part of the main ingrediants while designing the new content it will be there, it will flow better, it will seem less... Tossed on at the last second. The little emotes from the Skyguard are just that... little emotes. When I'm exalted and see "Hey Ziguld, I hear you don't fly with a parachut cloak" I should also see from quest givers "You know the drill by now, heres the bombs, go".

I mean how many days has it been since I started doing Netherwing dailies... I've lost count, yet every single time I hand in my "flower picker" quest I see "Good work grunt, come back tommorw... If you're still alive". Apparently I keep coming back alive... And lets not get to the "Rise up Overseer!" followed by "Whats this, a flower picker"?

Again its good that things are moving in the right direction. But keeping them as something just tossed in at the end will always leave that feeling of just that; Something random tossed in at the end.

I understand your point of view, but inevitably it comes down to a matter of time. Assuming we release things in the same timeframe, the question becomes: would you rather have one repeatable quest with everything that entails (one reputation gain, one reward) with this level of conditional content, or four quests (repeatable or otherwise) with four reputation gains and four rewards that had much less conditional content? In the end, no matter how many people we have working on a product, there will always be a limited timeframe in which to release content as we do not (yet) own a time machine. At present, while we certainly do dedicate manhours to the writing and creation of this immersive content you ask for, the majority of our time is focused on creating the actual content itself.

Kisirani

#167 - Aug. 31, 2007, 8:44 p.m.

Q u o t e:

I understand that you are given a task and must complete it. Maybe Blizzard is stretching itself too thin. Maybe you guys should consider putting off the next expansion (I felt like BC came too soon, my guild was almost in Naxx). I know there are financial consideration (probably a huge understatement), but my suggestion is to focus resources on what the consumer wants and not on crapping out a new product every year. The importance of immersion cannot be overstated. It is the basis of D&D, which has led to the creation of every fantasy game since it's creation. I love the game, but I think the expansion is coming too soon if you guys don't have the resources to refine the good product you already have.

We do listen to what the playerbase is after, but not all players are interested in what you may be interested in.

Some people love the lore. That's great. We do too, and we try to share it.

Some people want immersion. That's great, and we try to provide when we can.

But some people who play this game are less interested in those aspects and more interested in the core gameplay, and we acknowledge that, too.

You feel BC came out too soon. Others feel differently. You may not believe that a new expansion should be in the works yet, but that doesn't necessarily reflect the views of the playerbase.

In the end, what we are looking to do is support the World of Warcraft and continue making it a great game. We have people with a number of playstyles hereabouts, and we keep all of them in mind.

Kisirani

#222 - Sept. 1, 2007, 12:58 a.m.

I adore my job and don't mean for you to take my explanation of the amount of work as a complaint by any means. Let me explain why I bring it up.

Long before I was in the business of game design, I was a player just like the rest of you (and still am, naturally). I would see room for improvements in the games I played that certainly appeared to need a trivial amount of time. It was a small thing, only -- surely they could find the time to add this.

Once I entered the industry, I learned first-hand precisely how much time those things that look simple would actually take. What's simple is to postulate on a forum about how a game might be improved with your ideas -- getting down into the implementation is normally far more time-consuming than you might guess.

My aim, therefore, is not to complain, but rather to educate those that may be unaware.

Certainly it seems simple to "just add text," but the scope of the project is larger than it may at first appear. No, it is not an overly complex request, but it is a very time-consuming one, and we would rather focus on bringing all-new content to you.

I'm the person behind the changes in poor Griftah's life. I set up a great deal of the flavor in the expansion. I'm with you on the desire to see more immersive content, and I plan to work on it when time permits, moving forward, but the focus will be on new content.

(Hey, blood elf paladins who have leveled past 20 -- try /eyeing a Silvermoon City Guardian sometime. ;) )

Kisirani

#238 - Sept. 1, 2007, 1:27 a.m.

Q u o t e:

You're not going to make me level a BE pally just to see what your talking about are you? Spill it.

Is /eyeing even an emote?

I was referring to the emote /eye, actually. Figured people would get that, but if not... there you have it.

It's nothing tremendous... just a little touch of the sort that people have been discussing.