#0 - Sept. 5, 2007, 9:24 p.m.
Q u o t e:
By Tseric on 9th of March 2007:The devs actually mentioned today that Paladin tanking wasn't exactly where they wanted it to be and there would be attention paid towards that end of things. Overall, they do expect Paladins, Druids and Warriors to fill tanking roles in end-game, whatever they may be. While there may be a flavor distinction between tanks, we don't want to (or want the players to) find some rigid hierarchy by which classes are measured in their tanking potential to the third decimal point.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=81920651
First of all, this is an open thread where i encourage all prot paladins to post the problems they face and if applicable, solutions to these problems.
This is not a "nerf holy/reroll/l2pay/i want to outtank a warrior" thread and should serve as a constructive compilation of issues we hope will draw Blizzard's and developer's attention. Also try to restrain yourself from saying "you can do X let war/druids do Z" as this is the thread highlighting differences between tanking classes and problems paladin tanks have compared to druids and warriors.
Another important thing is that most if not all of the problems i listed are about paladins tanking in 25 man raids and in current end game. Normal and heroic 5 man instances and Karazhan are quite different in group composition, encounters and mechanics although there is a certain number of issues that can be observed there, as well as in 25 man raids.
I intend to update this thread with corrections and changes as i am sure i have made some omissions and i hope other people will contribute to this thread.
If you don’t want to read the whole thread (which i would appreciate since i’ve put a lot of effort into it) you can jump to the summary at the end of this article.
SUMMARY -> http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=612225245&postId=6121918980&sid=1#8
As a tank, you need to do 2 things and you must do them perfectly, otherwise you fail. You need to be able to grab and keep threat, and at the same time be able to survive the fight.
THREAT
Threat (aggro) is keeping mob's "attention" through the mix of melee, special attacks, spells and abilities. Higher threat leads to higher dps and faster kills. It is one of the 2 essential roles any tank needs to perform.
Paladin threat, is in majority based on spell damage and it's commonly agreed that 200-400 (the higher, the better) SD is enough for a paladin tank to keep aggro. Higher threat means more dps but there is a big difference between burst and stable aggro. I will later explain why this is so important.
Let's compare our threat to other 2 tanks in this game. (I don't have much experience with druid or warrior tanks so corrections are welcome and will be made)
Warriors - threat based on melee damage and special attacks. Source of it all is rage which is generated through being hit and hitting the oponent. Very stable but takes a while to build up (the famous 5 sunders). 15% threat increase from Defiance talent and Shield Slam which "causes high amount of threat" as well as Devastate. As warriors progress in the game and gear up, their threat significantly increases and there is a big difference between warrior threat in 5 mans and blue gear and an epic geared tank in T6.
Strengths: Based on rage and can be reliably generated over long periods of time, very stable (due to constant rage flow), relies on being hit (as the source of rage), takes advantage of other stats warriors use both to increase their tanking and dps (str for shield block value, shield bash, AP and thus aggro from melee hits is also affected by it, agi for both armor and crit which produces extra aggro compared to normal hits).
Weaknesses: Takes longer to build up than paladin threat, not as effective on multiple targets, can suffer if melee or special attacks miss.
Druids - similar to warriors except for a few minor differences. Faerie Fire is there to (somewhat) compensate for the lack of sunder and with swipe druids make excellent multi-target tanks. Based on rage regenerated during combat. Stable threat based on melee hits and special (melee and bleed attacks). Feral Instinct talent increases threat by 15% while in bear form.
Strengths: based on rage like warrior threat, stable, like warriors, takes advantage of stats that increase both survivability and threat, bleed effects that increase raid dps and serves as threat over time, superior to warriors in multi-target tanking
Weaknesses: Like warriors, takes longer time to build up than paladin threat, more effective than warriors on multiple targets (swipe) but still less effective than paladins, hits can miss, be parried or dodged, mobs can be immune to bleed effects
Paladins - SD based threat relying on mana which is regenerated through Spiritual Atunment. Very high burst aggro but hard to sustain especially on long fights. Improved Righteous Fury increases threat from Righteous Fury by 50% (note, this does not increase the total threat but only the threat generated by Righteous Fury).
Strengths: high burst at the beginning of the fight which enables the highest dps at the start, superior to to both druids and warriors in AoE tanking, high threat generated through blocking while Holy Shield is active, consecration and SoV acting as ToT (threat over time), can be significantly increased with foods and oils, more effectively than it is for warriors and druids. If the fight involves Undead or Demons, paladins can use their undead/demon specific spells (Exorcism and Holy Wrath) to produce extra threat.
Weaknesses: based on mana and dependent on SA for mana regeneration which can be lacking, increase in survivability cause less mana received from heals and thus, less threat, variations in TPS with lows between Judgments followed by threat spikes, very dependent on reflective damage from Holy Shield, based on spell damage and melee damage (melee hits can be dodged/parried, can miss; spells can be reflected, resisted or mobs can be immune to spells), very vulnerable to spell shields, silence and mana burn.
Since a large portion of paladin threat is based on reflective damage, caster mobs and resistance fights are another example where paladin's superior threat generation is negated. This problem can be somewhat resolved by using consecration but since Consecration is a very expensive spell and is terribly ineffective on single targets, unless paladin is getting hit hard (boss encounters) he will usually run out of mana very quickly. This problem is even more pronounced after the Spiritual Attunment nerf in 2.1.
Immunity/spell reflect/mana burn/silence
In end game (25 man instances in particular but examples can be found as low as in heroic 5 mans) mobs on occasion cast "spell reflect" shields on themselves which brings paladin tps to the lowest lvls of all 3 tanking classes. With spell reflect we're unable to use holy spells to generate threat and it's very likely that we will lose aggro. Warriors and druids do not have these problems as spell reflect/shields do not affect melee based threat. Also worth noting is that there are no (to my knowledge) melee immune mobs (with or without castable spells) in TBC end game. Example of spell reflect mobs: heroic sethekk, SSC. Mobs immune to melee damage - none in TBC end game (as far as i know). Only known melee immune mobs are shades at Instructor Malicia in Scholomance.
It is rare but possible to engage mobs that are completely immune to spells which again drops our threat to the lowest lvls and makes us unable to keep aggro. Example: Wyrms in Karazhan
These kinds of mobs give a huge leg up to melee tanks (warriors, druids) compared to paladins and negate the initial threat advantage paladin tanks have.
Mana burn - since paladin threat is almost entirely based on spell damage and spells are casted through the use of mana, mana burn that some mobs use kills our main means of threat generation. Usually (and especially after the SA nerf) mana gained through heals is insufficient. Since mana burn also affects healers, it again reduces the amount of mana regenerated through SA. Mana burn also causes damage which does not affect warrior/druid tanks. Example - The Eye
Mobs with "rage burn" ability or able to reduce rage generation - Reliquary of Souls in BT, also does mana burn.
Silence - spell based threat is not generated if a paladin is unable to cast spells. Only help - Imp Concentration Aura which forces us to drop DA/RA/SA and increase the damage we take and only decreases the silence duration, does not cancel it. Example: heroics, SSC, The Eye
Mobs with "melee/special ability silence" - none (as far as i know)
Again, warriors and druids come on top.
Threat Summary
Even though paladins are superior in AoE tanking and have superior burst aggro, due to several game mechanics, they are extremely vulnerable compared to warriors and druids. There are 3 situations where we can hardy generate threat (spell shields/immunity, mana burn, silence), none of which affects druids and warriors. At the same time, all these situations cause raid leaders to doubt paladin tanks and their superior threat because other 2 tanking classes appear much more reliable in terms of threat generation. When taking a warrior/druid who cannot be affected by mana burn/silence/spell reflect, raids exclude that unknown variable paladin tanks bring.
When choosing between a tank with superior threat but vulnerable to several well known and used game mechanics or a tank with slightly lower threat but immune to the mentioned mechanics, guilds chose the second option. This is especially evident in end game and new content situations.
Another thing is that as they gear up, warriors close the threat gap to paladins almost reaching same levels of sustainable tps.
