These "Hotfixes" are a no, no.

#1 - Feb. 19, 2011, 4:14 a.m.

These Hotfixes, are like band-aids without any disinfectant.
P.S. Read the last paragraph, please. I'd like to hear some opinions.
P.P.S It makes me all warm and fuzzy that I got a Blue. :D
P.P.P.S Wow, I totally didn't expect THIS much attention.

Example: "This just in! We're making the cost for shields in Holy Spec for priest significantly cheaper then discipline, completely allowing Holy to spam it!"
That's a no, no.

Example: "We're going to take damage away from this _____ because ____ is to powerful."
Is also, a no, no.

Reactions: "My _____ is worthless now QQ, give it back QQ." or "I'm going to play a new game now."
As a person who reads the QQ, I get a kick out "I'm going to play a new game."

____________________________________________________________________

Ninja buffing, ninja nerfing, it's all the same really. It's not just one class being effected either, it's multiple classes. It can be buff or nerf, it's confusing the player base. My main is a Priest (Explains the first example, eh?), our class in general has been bouncing between Discipline and Holy quite a bit to get the best out of our class, frankly, I hate it. I'm actually sure a lot of people are hating it, for all the classes.

I liked patches and I liked PTRs, even though they are still there, they aren't used like they should. Doing a quick fix, is good and all, for bugs. Not overall game play. I don't care if my class sucked for a month, it's a little better then having to constantly figure out whats going on. I'll use my first example (I might actually do this a lot), you broke into the QQ about Discipline priests being to powerful with shield spam, now look what you've done? Without thinking to much about it, Holy now can EASILY do it. This is the reason I don't like hotfixes. They aren't thought enough, long enough.

You'd actually think, things like ____ spell being to powerful would be caught in the PTR? I don't work for Blizzard, nor do I intend too, I will never know what truly goes on during the "Class balancing stage." However, I do know, covering a mistake without thinking, can bring a new mistake. Some call it the domino effect. A PTR, a SOLID patch brings new hope for a lot of people. I remember reading up on my class during the PTR and all i could think was "Wow! I can't wait to see this in action!"

I know it will never happen, the complete removal of hotfixes, but a person can hope, yes? I'd say I'll be optimistic, but optimism is with evidence, where as hope is not. The reason I state my opinion out-loud is to hear (Read) on other opinions on these "hotfixes." So please, type away.

Bashiok

Community Manager

#8 - Feb. 19, 2011, 4:48 a.m.

We actually spent a bit of time talking to the designers about this very topic, and it's something they're well aware of and realize isn't always ideal.

A few really great points came out of that meeting, though:

Some changes in 4.0.6 and/or 4.0.6a were just wrong. For a myriad of reasons the changes made in 4.0.6/4.0.6a either did not pan out as expected, or were simply mis-calculations/interpretations. Which is the reason for a number of the quick reversions and changes in hotfixes shortly after the patch.

While there was feedback from the PTR on what is broken, overpowered, underpowered, etc. there simply wasn't enough data and real world proof for us to make changes. Forum posts always make a lot of noise. It's difficult to separate the seed from the chaff. Yes, it turned out a number of reports proved to be accurate once the 4.0.6's hit the masses and we were able to get a sample size that showed us what needed adjusting.

The third point discussed was that we have an obligation to deploy hotfixes when we feel we're making quality of life-improvements, fixing errors, or simply making good balance changes. Good balance is very much debatable among who you ask, of course. ;)

Fourth point really struck home with all of the designers, and that's that they also have an obligation to not use the live realms as a balancing laboratory. That while the changes being made have seemed very quick and sporadic at times, that there is thought and planning going in to them, and they are consciously avoiding throwing out changes and seeing what happens. While some changes have been implemented and then reverted, it's not because a lot of thought and effort didn't go into them, but that simply they didn't work as intended.

I know a lot of us remember the old days where classes would sit without changes for months, in some cases years for specific mechanics. A class would dominate for 6 months, and that's just how the game was. While we think good, measured changes in patches is far more visible and understandable, that hotfixes allow so much more to offering immediate relief that we'd be remiss in not using them to offer a better game experience to you, the players. There's an agreement that 4.0.6 and 4.0.6a have been pretty chaotic with hotfixes, and that's due to a number of issues that we don't consider to be 'usual'. We fully expect them to slow down substantially from this point, and we really appreciate everyone who stays on top of the hotfix blog, and relates the changes as they're made to their guildies and friends.

Bashiok

Community Manager

#16 - Feb. 19, 2011, 4:57 a.m.

02/18/2011 8:54 PMPosted by Daintyhorns
HAHA and as expected. You've already nerfed aimed, and the hawk buff is nowhere to be found. /golfclap

I don't believe either of the hunter hotfixes are actually live yet. But I'm not great at deciphering our hotfix push lingo.

Bashiok

Community Manager

#17 - Feb. 19, 2011, 4:58 a.m.

02/18/2011 8:57 PMPosted by Tastie
Well, the hotfixes did do a pretty good job of keeping my disc priest from (apparently inadvertently) becoming fun to play, and from keeping my spriest from (apparently inadvertently) topping hunter and lock faceroll dps for more than 48 hours, so it looks like the designers have it all under control now.

Awesome! Glad to hear tha... WAIT A SECOND!

Bashiok

Community Manager

#49 - Feb. 19, 2011, 5:38 a.m.

I'd like to vent a little of the frustration of things being done this way.

Not everyone "studies" WoW, and they come to guild leadership to explain why things are changing. When tooltips say one thing, but the spell does another, they are baffled if they don't do offline reading. This leads to certain people -- usually ones with low playtime, but plenty of time to read the websites and learn current events -- being inundated with questions and expected to explain what all happened.

Please, at the very least put a notice on the login screen as you do with maintenance notices to at least let people know that another round of hotfixes are happening and to check the community site. Doesn't have to be super detailed, just that more hotfixes went live. There needs to be some in-gem notification system, even if extremely basic.

Agree. That was something we specifically discussed and probably should have included in my post. Expecting people to alt-tab to read a potentially updated blog isn't right. We don't have any great solutions for that yet, but it of course makes hotfixes infinitely more confusing and even potentially damaging to the play experience without some kind of in game communication. We haven't figured out what that might be yet. It's something we're concerned with too. Although we expect hotfixes to slow down substantially at this point, we need a solution for the future.

Bashiok

Community Manager

#380 - Feb. 20, 2011, 12:21 a.m.

While there was feedback from the PTR on what is broken, overpowered, underpowered, etc. there simply wasn't enough data and real world proof for us to make changes. Forum posts always make a lot of noise. It's difficult to separate the seed from the chaff. Yes, it turned out a number of reports proved to be accurate once the 4.0.6's hit the masses and we were able to get a sample size that showed us what needed adjusting.

So what's the point of having a public test realm if you don't listen to the public testers, or the info they provide?

The PTR does not exist solely for balance feedback. They provide crash reports, bug reports, having the patches simply live on a test environment with people actively playing helps us catch a great number of issues that no one would even need post about. Beyond that though the bug reports that are posted are extremely helpful, and overall the PTRs lead without a doubt to a more stable patch than it would have been were there no public test.

In direct answer to what you're referring, unless there's new content, the number of people on the PTR is really pretty low. Too low to pull reliable metrics to base balance changes on. Unless there's new content to drive people to the PTR there generally just isn't a sample size. Which is fine, because we can make changes after the PTR once the patch hits the live realms. Issuing hotfixes after a patch is by no means something new. We've used hotfixes for quite a long time, but since Cataclysm and the new community site, hotfix changes are front page news through the blogs. Which is awesome. Before we were throwing out pretty much the same amount of hotfixes we were after 4.0.6. Difference being we didn't have a great way to tell anyone about them. So now hotfixes are very visible and it makes it seem like we're going crazy with them, when really it's just increased transparency into the changes we're making.

Going back to your question, the PTR does many great things for the patches, and it should be expected that we're not going to make balance changes based on forum posts alone. The designers don't believe their own play experience is reason enough to make balance changes, although it can be one part of the puzzle, and the same goes for us reading about yours.

Bashiok

Community Manager

#385 - Feb. 20, 2011, 12:39 a.m.

02/19/2011 4:34 PMPosted by Aloeverra
Given the designers and game posters (While you say you read the posts and take them to someone) are taken and given such little credit when looking at game design and balance. Just how is this game designed?

Game balance is ideally based on as many sources as possible, that's forum feedback, that's fansite forum feedback, articles, blogs, personal play experience, play experience of other designers, actual data of real world class performance, mixed by an attempt at taking these things and making intelligent changes to focus the classes.

Class balance comes from no single source. And while forum feedback is part of it, it's not enough to drive a change alone.