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Zye
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#1 - 2011/01/13 06:47:58 PM
With all the heroic dungeon qq'ing it seems that there is a one fundamental flaw that does give some of these people ammo.

And that is the fact that when you do hit 85, 2 of the dungeons you can't access anymore, 2 of the dungeons are heroic only, and another doesn't give any rep.

Now don't get me wrong, I loved heroics and the difficulty. I also accept the fact that over time they will slowly get nerfed down to make them more accessible for a broader player base and to go faster which is as it should be.

But I did run into this problem trying to get my resto shammy up to heroic level. I understood that healing was harder, so even when I hit 329 I wouldn't set foot in a heroic as a healer till I got more gear.

But with only 3 instances to farm rep, no JP's for a normal random after the first. And a short loot list in certain slots without rep, and certain reps such as wildhammer for the healing mail boots requiring exalted. Think even though alot of my resto gear is now 346 I am still running green boots lol.

It does make the gear up to heroics more tedious than it really needs to be.

My suggestion to help with the gearing to get ready for heroics are a few.

1. Make it to where you can access Throne and Blackrock on a normal difficulty.

2. Mabey add a 85 normal of Deadmines and SFK

3. 35 JP's for every random normal after the first.

4. 25 JP's for every normal boss at 85

5. Rep from Throne, Blackrock, and Stonecore at 85.

I beleive that in doing this you will have more people actually willing to spend the time in normal dungeons and not feel you have to get into heroics before you are really ready for them just so you can feel like you are getting something for your time.

You increase the variety of content instead of just 4 dungeons. Yes it will make the rep grind easier and yes it can and will probably be abused by some players. But lets face it there are players that are going to abuse any system.

And to the elitist's (not to be confused with the elite) look at it this way. While you can't make a bad player good by adding gear. You can make them less of a burden to carry at least. Also this might keep more people who aren't ready for heroics in Teir appropriate content so that we won't see "as many" gaming the system with pvp, or in bag gear.

Will it fix all problems, no. But I believe if even a couple of these were adopted it would fix alot of problems.

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Community Manager
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#2 - 2011/01/13 09:45:49 PM
We're always looking for ways to improve the end-game experience, so thank you for taking the time to provide detailed and constructive feedback. It's very much appreciated. :)

I did want to call out one suggestion you made in particular:

01/13/2011 10:47 AMPosted by Zye
1. Make it to where you can access Throne and Blackrock on a normal difficulty.


In 4.0.6, we've made a few adjustments so that players will be able to queue for the normal versions of Throne of the Tides and Blackrock Caverns after hitting level 85. While these dungeons will not be added to your Random Dungeon pool, you'll still have the option to queue for them individually.

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Community Manager
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#15 - 2011/01/13 10:13:07 PM
01/13/2011 1:52 PMPosted by Lasica
They don't give faction rep though and the gear is pretty much worthless at 85 so if you want to gear up a new character you are back to the same 3 dungeons before you get to heroics.


As Throne of the Tides and Blackrock Caverns are not max-level dungeons, it's true that they won't provide reputation from faction tabards or drop the highest iLevel gear. Even so, many level 85 players have politely requested that we add these normal dungeons back into their "Specific Dungeons" queue. Maybe they missed the opportunity to run the dungeons while leveling, or maybe they're having a hard time with the Heroic versions and would like some added practice. Either way, the request was sound and a relatively small change overall, so we were happy to implement it.


Edit: Also, just to reiterate, if you're level 85 and choose Random Dungeon, you will not be placed into a Throne of the Tides or Blackrock Caverns group. These normal dungeons can only be queued for by level 85 players using the "Specific Dungeon" list. So, if you'd prefer not to run either once you're max level, you definitely have that option.

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Community Manager
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#35 - 2011/01/14 02:24:50 AM
01/13/2011 5:52 PMPosted by Urikslargda
The problem with this change is you won't get anything useful for going there and they will be so easy that you can just ignore the mechanics. That hardly helps anyone.


So, if you go to the dungeon with the express desire to learn the mechanics (the reason why this change was made), you're going to be so impressed by how easy it is that you'll completely forget why you were there and ignore the mechanics. Instead, we should revert the change, removing the option entirely, and focus on making more complex changes that likely wouldn't be implemented until months down the road. Maybe you don't realize that's what you mean, but that's the reality of it.

There are many good ideas for how to better equip people to do heroics and raids. They do not invalidate the usefulness of this change to those who wanted to still be able experience them on normal before jumping into heroic. Don't agree? You don't have to use it.