Regional FlagElemental Discussions - 7.2.5 Part 2Source
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#1 - 2017/06/06 10:03:00 PM
We reached the post cap. Let's continue the madness.

I am not baffled anymore. This is a pretty decent nerf to AOE and knockdowns. What you have outlined as double dipping can easily be called symmetry and Lore specifically said you like how Elemental is playing. I suspect blizzard, as any company would, is allocating resources elsewhere and our spec is just getting the short end of the stick.

Why you would nerf an under performing class who obviously is not going to scale worth a darn is confusing. A majority of the top elemental shaman are already mastery capped. Our best stat being capped at a low ilvl compared to the expansion timeline warrants an explanation in my opinion. How is better gear going to move us up from dumpster dps if our most useful stat is already capped?

Why would you allow earth shock to hit for 900k at full mastery when it doesn't critical strike at 905 ilvl? It is such an obvious design flaw if a class developer was familiar with the class. The fact that we do zero damage on the move is an issue when you also look at our inability to move. On to class fantasy issues. Why is a healing class like shaman the worse passive healer in the game and provides no useful utility? All questions that have been asked in the previous 25 pages of posts. It is almost comical that it was addressed with a nerf to our AOE damage. Come on man.

This spec feels like a dog that has been beaten for years and honestly who cares any more. Kick us again while we are down, nerf our aoe, ignore our ST issues, keep the spec in the gutter, and give us zero reasons or communication as to what is going on. At the end of the day it is blizzards game and we just play it. This week is just par for the course for elemental shaman and who really cares anymore.

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#47 - 2017/06/07 03:26:00 AM
06/06/2017 04:16 PMPosted by Gistwiki
In any case, I was posting to flesh out the numbers I presented earlier. Assuming we hit the 3rd tick breakpoint (which is reasonable in M+ assuming you use sephuz) then accounting for the loss of Seismic Storm procs then we're looking at Earthquake needing to be buffed to 92.5% per tick to be equal to live Earthquake.

9 Live EQ procs at 60% = ~540% SP
9 SS proc chances @ 728% SP per proc with the current 5% proc chance = ~327.6% SP

Total average damage as SP per EQ on live = 867.6% SP.

6 PTR EQ procs at 78% = 468% SP
6 SS proc chances @ 728% SP per proc with the current 5% proc chance = ~218.4% SP

Total average damage as SP after the change = 686.4% SP

In order to bring these two numbers together, the damage per Earthquake tick needs to be brought from 65% per tick to 95.2% per tick assuming no other changes are made.

If we assume that the average haste is low enough that you get 8 ticks instead of 9, the average live damage is ~680%. That would require that Earthquake is brought up to ~79.13% damage per tick (474.8% SP over 6 seconds) to be equal to live.

Edit: I forgot The Ground Trembles & Call The Thunder in my original calculations. The numbers above have been updated appropriately.

A simpler way of arranging this, if I understand you correctly, is:

You're assuming that a typical live EQ has either 8 ticks (33.3% haste) or 9 ticks (50% haste including a proc of some kind), instead of the baseline 6. In that case, you would argue for (generously) a 50% buff to EQ and Seismic Storm, but at the minimum a 33% buff?

Game Designer
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#108 - 2017/06/07 08:11:00 PM
Brief aside on scaling, since it's getting a lot of discussion in this thread. Slightly technical.

Elemental's scaling with crit doesn't pose any major problems that we know of. Yes, crit doesn't improve Lava Burst, but improves everything else by more than the standard amount due to Elemental Fury and Elemental Focus. This is intended to make crit's total value balanced for Elemental, and as far as we know it's in a good place. A quick glance at community-made guides etc. would indicate that players have the same valuation (crit is far from the bottom stat). The fact that distribution of crit's benefit is not uniform on all spells is in many ways a good thing--it give the stats more texture. It's something that would probably be good to have more of across the specs (as is common with mastery and haste).

Haste improves Earth Shock and Earthquake by virtue of casting them more often (in addition to reducing cast/GCD time, although the former is more important). Imagine a simplified world where 3 Chain Lightnings build enough resource for 1 Earthquake. The entire cast sequence of CL-CL-CL-EQ gets compressed by whatever your haste percentage is, improving your DPS by that amount. The Earthquake doesn't have to do more damage per cast with haste (in the same way that the Chain Lightning doesn't do more damage per cast, and nobody questions that).

Game Designer
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#169 - 2017/06/08 12:36:00 AM
We agree that the mastery cap is not ideal. It is not completely urgent since you have to be rather mastery-stacked to hit it, even in current endgame gear. But knowing that problem will get worse, I would not be surprised if we looked into it in an upcoming patch.

EDIT: I believe PTR should currently (or shortly) have:
--Earth Shock damage increased by 25% (from 20%)
--Earthquake damage increased by 55% (from 30%)
--Frost Shock damage increased by 25%

Game Designer
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#172 - 2017/06/08 12:43:00 AM
Just Earthquake for now. Rather than buff both equally, putting the whole buff into EQ shifts some damage from SS towards EQ in the process to make things a little less random.