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Upcoming boss armor change
As I have posted a couple of times recently, we decided to raise the armor of level 83 raid bosses by 10% to correct for some dps difference between casters and melee + hunters. I wanted to address the issue head on with the rogues.

We have done a lot of testing recently, and concluded that even with this change, Assassination rogues are likely the top dps spec in the game against single bosses that don't move around a lot (like Patchwerk). This isn't a bad place for them to be. They pay a small price both for being melee (where more damage tends to occur) and for lacking the ability to respec into a non-damage build. We don't think they will be as far above hybrids as they have been before -- as I've posted before, it's very important that hybrid classes do higher dps now that their buffs do not stack.

Combat builds, especially swords, is competitive but probably behind Assassination. This is something we'd like to address, especially if it turns out to be a major difference between the specs. Additional armor does hurt Combat, but also remember it's just raid bosses and not other players (or trash or heroic bosses).

Subtelty, sadly, is just much harder to test since so much of their damage relies on other players. Our preliminary evidence is that they generate plenty of combo points from Honor Among Thieves, but this might mean their personal dps when not in a group suffers. This is something we're still testing.

I will add that some players have wondered if Honor Among Thieves is bugged since the cp can occur more often than 1 sec. In this case, the tooltip is just unclear. When Jimmy the Shaman crits, he cannnot "send you" a combo point more often than 1 per sec. But if you have lots of players critting all the time, you can build them up quickly. So Honor is (here it comes) working as intended.
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Ghostcrawler
Re: Upcoming boss armor change

Q u o t e:
The way the post reads, it appears as if GC means Armor count is going up, not the flat damage reduction.


Yes, it's armor. Sorry for the confusion. Part of the problem is that Sunder / Expose offer just an amazing dps boost and casters have nothing that good.


Q u o t e:
How about adding 360 degree cleaves?


For the mobs? No problem. Done.


Q u o t e:
Dear GC. I wish you would worry about our utility as much as you'd worry about our DPS being too high and Hybrids not doing enough DPS. I wish I could see these charts with Rogues topping the charts too, I have yet to see a rogue equally geared do more damage than say a Pally.


Well, pallys were broken. Utility is definitely something we’re keeping an eye on. If you are right and I am wrong and rogues don’t bring enough to a group, then it will be fun to buff it. Buffs are fun for us. They make the players happy. Nerfs are sad.


Q u o t e:
So if my math is right, Hunters get 10% more special pet damage, but then bosses get 10% more armor. Ok, so we have rogues, warriors, etc etc doing ... 10% less damage now while the hunters seem to be getting the pet bonus that evens them out and doesn't hurt them dps wise other than haste white damage you mentioned.


If I am understanding the question, a 10% buff to pet dps is not a 10% buff to hunter dps. It’s maybe 4% depending on your build and the pet.


Q u o t e:
When do you expect this change to be implemented? Before this change hunters had a pretty good lead on all dps. Granted, very little of their damage (and pet damage) ignores armor so this will lower that damage a bit more than a rogues, but I'm not sure if it will be enough.


The change should go live before LK ships on Nov 13. Remember, hunters also lost the haste from WF etc.


Q u o t e:
It seems very very evident that you have never lead a raid, nor given significant thought to what goes into creating a serious raid. Raiding is all about giving the greatest chance of success to your raiding group, which means that optimization is required.


I have tried to suggest this a few times, but this type of accusation usually doesn’t make the player end up looking very good. You see, you have no idea what my characters look like, but I can call up a great deal of data about yours. It would be inappropriate for us to use that information against you publicly of course. My advice is just to try different arguments.


Q u o t e:
Therefore, as a raid lead, since you have a massive pool of applicants most of the time...


What we think is actually true of a great many raid leads is they know who their good players are. In BC they had to bench good players because they needed certain buff and debuff combos to make their numbers work. (And to be fair because certain specs were gimp in BC raiding.) You can get those buffs more easily now with a lot more flexibility. You can bring who you want to fill in the extra spots. Now I understand a misinformed raid leader or perhaps a pug has no other information other than class and might make bad decisions such as bringing 25 paladins to a raid (to exaggerate to the point of absurdity, but you get my drift).


Q u o t e:
Now, why, as a raid lead, do I care about AoE? The answer is simple, because almost every instance has spots that support and require it. Not only that, but everywhere it can be safely used, it speeds up the clear which is always desirable.


Now I happen to agree with that, but you can see examples in this very thread from people who say trash is irrelevant to them or their progress.


Q u o t e:
THANKS FOR NOTHING, JIMMY.


Yeah, Jimmy is like that. /gkick imo.
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Ghostcrawler
Re: Upcoming boss armor change

Q u o t e:
This armor change seems really pointless. I think I've been more disappointed than impressed with the majority of the changes made thus far. Reading the Q & A just brings it home that there isn't very much rogue friendly ideas being made, just excuses as to why things are and more small nerfs over a period of time so as to make us not all explode at once. Overall id give you a D-.


Based on your post, I can't imagine you will see it this way, but others among you can consider this. The fact that we were pretty close to our target dps with rogues is a good thing. It means the abilities, talents and mechanics all worked out the way we predicted they would. While it might be fun to read a post with massive buffs to your class, that also means we screwed up and had to fix it.
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Ghostcrawler