MMO-Champion BlueTracker - [Feedback] Middle Ground for Hunters GC?

2008-10-03 21:38:12

[Feedback] Middle Ground for Hunters GC?

Is there a middle ground?

I for one think there's a long way between a pet made of paper towels and one made of stone.

I think there's a long way between haste being a usless stat and it being the only one we use.

I think there's a huge difference between "important skills off the GCD" and "No GCD for anyone"

Perhaps some exaggeration is involved on your part Devs, but I would think in the interest of testing that you'd let us play around with pets that while not stone, were perhaps made of cardboard.
Where haste affected more than 20% of our damage.
Where our skills meant to defend us could actually be used in defense as opposed to permanent lockout from an oppressive GCD.

But then again, maybe I'm just wrong.

But I being a hunter have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams beneath your feet Blizz, nerf softly for you are nerfing my dreams . . .

Raadun

2008-10-03 22:28:40

Re: [Feedback] Middle Ground for Hunters GC?

Q u o t e:
We are here to TEST stuff. Let us test this for one patch and see the results. If they are TOO good (lol), then all you have to do is revert the change.

Man, I love the idea. I just don't think the beta community at large could handle it. Every single nerf is greeted with a lot of howling. Even the hunters freaked out a little when a mob ability was mistakenly reported as a nerf to wing clip. We were tarred when we hadn't even done anything. :) Now, the one possible exception are the death knights, who don't handle nerfs that badly, but I suspect that's because nobody has a death knight main yet.

I would like to try a pet model at some point where the pets were sturdy and easily healed, but contributed much less of the total dps (like 15-25% instead of 30-40%).

The GCD, as I've said, is a good deal trickier. If anything, we regret a little pulling some abilities off of the GCD because that opened the barn door for other requests to remove things from it.

Ghostcrawler

2008-10-03 23:25:53

Re: [Feedback] Middle Ground for Hunters GC?

Q u o t e:
Side question: If we end up in the same boat during season 5 of the arena as we have in season 1-4, will there be a proactive effort to help us out as a class?

Yes!

Ghostcrawler

2008-10-08 12:16:37

Re: [Feedback] Middle Ground for Hunters GC?

Q u o t e:
... because substantial changes have been made to our class between Seasons 4 and 5. Despite all the beta-testing, the data from beta-testing arena play is the most difficult to extrapolate to live deployment... people don't take beta arenas as seriously, level 80 characters haven't been available for as long, and there's really no substitute for tens of thousands of PvPers exploring the permutations of abilities that WLK will offer.

At the moment, I think it's safe to say that Blizzard is hoping that their changes will have a positive influence on Hunter viability in arenas, but they cannot honestly say that they know it.

What GC is saying is that, if the worst comes to the worst, and we find ourselves lying in the dirt at the bottom of the ladder after season 5, Blizzard will devote considerable resources to fixing that specific problem... but right now, that would be premature, and possibly counter-productive.

Well said. I'm not sure I'd disagree with anything there.

Q u o t e:
When it was said that we would be seeing Camo and 2 new LoS abilities, a lot of hunters gave a mulligan on the builds until we were to see those. But we never did. Thing is, WE DON'T KNOW WHY. At all. Not even a little bit. So a post that said, "Hunters, we'd like you to try working with your PvP builds with what you have currently. We feel that some of the changes we anticipated earlier would move the class in the wrong direction, and we want to see how new changes like Disengage and Kill Shot change the dynamics of your class." Instead we just kinda wonder what's going on. Maybe you don't want us privy to this much info, but I fail to see why not. However, you will chide us ALL a bit when a few get immature on these forums. (BTW, you devs need to get over that a bit. Seriously, you are all acting a bit too butt hurt over what I would see as 100% completely expected forum whining. Weren't you guys at Blizzcon last year? Remember Jay Mohr getting heckled in the auditorium? Yeah, that is part of your fanbase. Some of US have to deal with it even more than YOU remember.....) So why take the time to point out the obvious: A lot of hunters, or any other class, are whiny ingrates. Welcome to Life. =)

On your first point, you seem to be saying that the difference between begrudging understanding and pitchforks is my keeping you updated. I understand the value of it, and I will try to do more. But plenty of people disagree or argue with quick updates like that too. There are also good forums out there that never get a blue post and still manage to analyze the data and come to reasonable conclusions without getting so upset.

On the second, some amount of heckling comes with the job. That's cool. But you can also tell how much effort I have to spend, even on the hunter forum alone, putting out fires. I neglect them sometimes, but sometimes players just work themselves up into a fury too. I don't accept that players should be allowed to say whatever they want and we just need to put up with it. Jay Mohr doesn't either - he gives it right back. I have seen my "deli" comment all across the Internet, and never paired with the rude demand for changes that I was responding too. That wasn't interepreted as my dealing with a heckler. That was interpeted as my being a jerk.

Q u o t e:
So you're saying that because of whiney board trolls and strongly opinionated biased players you're unwilling to properly balance and test this game in a way you admit is a great idea? Do your job and don't worry what a few whiners say, with 10 million+ players there will be whiners no matter what you do.

I think it's pretty clear we balance the game the way we think it needs to be balanced, even when players rabidly disagree with us. But it also kills me every time I see someone post "I can't deal with the immatuirty and sense of entitlement of these forums any more. C'ya." That is just potential information that we are losing because anonymous Internet posters can't help themselves. (That's also very different from players who threaten to quit the game over some transgression of Blizzard's -- that action is often used as a tactic to get our attention or to get a particular change made.)

Q u o t e:
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Q u o t e:

I would like to try a pet model at some point where the pets were sturdy and easily healed, but contributed much less of the total dps (like 15-25% instead of 30-40%).

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Then I quit my hunter. Plain and simple. Pet HP is a problem, yes. But by fixing it in that manor you create the problem that the "sturdy and eaily healed" pet isnt worth the easy healing.

And to my original point, here you see why it's hard to try new things. :)

Ghostcrawler

2008-10-08 12:57:00

Re: [Feedback] Middle Ground for Hunters GC?

Q u o t e:
That sounds more like a problem with how the forums work than what you or the other Blues do, GC.

Yeah. We might try some different things with them in the future.

But lest I sound petulant, we do appreciate all of the good points raised by the posters who can be articulate, inoffensive and logical, even if you don't agree with us on some issues.

Ghostcrawler

2008-10-08 21:17:07

Re: [Feedback] Middle Ground for Hunters GC?

Q u o t e:
With that said, and I do agree that things can get over dramatic here, don't you think it might be as worrying to lose a player in beta who says something to the effect of " I can't take these changes anymore. I've done my best to post logical, level-headed information and it's gotten us nowhere."?

Well of course we don't want players to leave. The problem is players have stumbled upon this strategy as a... well, I hate to use the word but I can't come up with a more precise one... "terrorist tactic." If you don't change hunters, I'm going to yell loudly into the ear of this very small kitten.

We have no idea if they actually rerolled or quit the game... though I suppose we could find it out. Sometimes they have no intention of quitting and just want you to beg them to stay... or even just to acknowledge their greivance.

Sometimes they do quit, but it might be for nothing related to class balance. Sometimes they think the class is broken but they just can't play it as well as other players.

It's best just not to acknowledge that strategy. I pay more attention when people say they aren't having fun with their class, but even in that case, players have figured out that I respond to that claim (sometimes) and it's started to crop up an awful lot these days.

Ghostcrawler