MMO-Champion BlueTracker - No dev posts for Shaman

2009-01-13 21:54:17

Just because they don't post in our threads or address our issues or remember to send us christmas cards doesn't mean they aren't aware of our issues. Right?

Right?

Shamannigans

2009-01-13 22:05:29

Re: No dev posts for Shaman

Please don't turn it into a contest to see who has the most posts. I know you feel your issues are legitimate and you feel neglected, but honestly, a lot of other players will make the same claim. You put us into a can't win scenario when you try and keep score. :(

Ghostcrawler

2009-01-13 23:11:14

Re: No dev posts for Shaman

I will try to explain this again. I feel like it comes up every few weeks, which surprises me.

Q u o t e:

________________________________________
Q u o t e:

How hard is it to say
'We are/will be/ looking at arena survivability for Shaman DPS 'or 'We are happy with Shaman performance in arena'

wow that was easy...
________________________________________

Thats what I dont get.

Whats the big secret?

Just below your post is this one:

Q u o t e:
Is there a reason why those other players all recieve constructive feedback yet all we get is a post deffending the neglect of our issues?

And this one

Q u o t e:
Soooooooo sad, there's like 10 constructive shaman pvp threads on just the first page and we get a reply to this one....

Just saying “We are looking at your issues” really won’t satisfy a lot of people. For some it is worse than no response at all.

I can’t give constructive feedback to every thread or realistically more than a very, very few of them. The topics I respond to are going to feel random because I cannot respond to so many of them. I don’t know how many players post regularly in the forums, but it is several hundred if not several thousand, and many of you post quite prolifically. It takes a great deal of time to read all of this and I can't offer you much more of my time and still get meaningful work done on the game.

Q u o t e:
I am pretty sure he can't speak in absolute terms. I work in a profession that can't either. So he has to be careful with what he says. Just like everyone at Blizzard.

Which is why he, Kalgan, Tigole etc uses words like "feel" "might" etc.

This too. Our words get taken out of context or used as evidence for that which we never intended. I think it sucks that I have to communicate that way, but I have sort of learned to caveat everything I say to the ninth degree.

Q u o t e:
However, people are complaining because of legitimate issues and feel they are being ignored.

Yes, that is exactly my point. You are essentially arguing that your legit issue is more important than other issues out there and essentially telling me I am posting in the wrong threads. I just don’t have the bandwidth to play that game. I’m not going to count where I post and what classes got the most post on any given week or whatever. It takes time that I don’t have and it wouldn’t really solve the problem anyway. The very next thing players go to is “Well, our posts weren’t substantive enough,” or “You didn’t answer the most important question.”

Like this one:

Q u o t e:
Oh but you can win--because at the end of the day, quality wins that game, not quantity. Case in point: How many times have you replied to Warlocks? And has that eased the pressure from us in the slightest?

The only way I have come up with to handle this situation is just to ask you please do not make a big deal about where I post. I am concerned that if where I post becomes so controversial that it detracts from the forums at large then the eventual result is going to be that I won’t be able to post at all, and I think that would be really unfortunate.

So please, don’t complain about where I post. If you post, I will read it. If you make good points, I will discuss them with the rest of the WoW team. Maybe other players will discuss them as well. That needs to be what these forums are about. We don’t want to ban our way to that state, so I am asking you, please, as a favor to me, just don’t do it.

I have read many good threads on shaman PvP issues, especially Elemental ones. If you have made your points, great. Move on. Don't keep fishing for a blue post or promises of buffs. That should not -- it cannot -- be the goal of posting in this forum.

Ghostcrawler

2009-01-14 00:00:31

Re: No dev posts for Shaman

Q u o t e:
geez GC, see if I ever try and agree with you again... but hey, you get a mulligan, I'll take one too.

No, I got that. But it was a valid point. Some shamans were saying that a post acknowledging their issues would be sufficient. All evidence from the conversations I have had with warlocks recently would suggest that is not the case.

Q u o t e:
He doesn't seem to understand that if we post feedback for months on end without any acknowledgement of at least awareness of them in the form of "I agree there's a problem" or "I don't think there's a problem", it feels like it's just being ignored. And so we try over and over and over again, mucking this forum up with a dozen elemental pvp posts on the front page daily.

If that is why you are posting here, you are going to be disappointed. The purpose of these forums is not to keep bumping threads or starting new topics until you get a blue post. Please, do not make a blue post your goal because it is not a realistic one. If you have made your points, then you are helping us. Consider your job done.

I post here because I get a lot out of it, but if my posts are that much of a distraction, then it is concerning to me.

Q u o t e:
If you feel like the complaints are drowning out the appreciation, just let us know. I'm sure plenty of players are willing to post a thousand threads about how much they appreciate what you're trying to do. Or go talk to the candle, she seems to have a way of making people smile.

She does do that. But no, no I’m not fishing for a bunch of appreciation threads. I just hate to see these forums turn into the “Ask GC” forums, but I know I have myself to blame for that. In the olden days, players just made posts and didn’t often receive a blue response. It might have been frustrating not ever getting a response, but I think I am realizing that it can be more frustrating knowing I am out here and not getting a response. I am trying to come up with a solution where the occasional response is acceptable. I’m not sure what we have is working.

Q u o t e:
Like I said there, we just want confirmation from the devs of what we are seeing and that it is a problem. If we know they see it as a problem, we can sit back knowing it will be addressed.

Don’t look for confirmation. I can’t give it to every topic. If you post it, we will see it. If you are correct, then we will make changes as necessary. You don’t need me bopping into a thread to give you my blessing, and ultimately I’m just not going to be able to do that (and neither is the candle).

Q u o t e:
It's nice to play a game where an important Dev actually posts regularly and mostly candidly on the forums. Further, it is quite surprising given the huge size/scope of WoW.

Sadly, there are all sorts of reasons why most game Devs don't do so.

You said so much with so few words. Bravo.

Tragically, I am kind of stubborn and unconventional, so I suppose I will keep trying to make it work. :)

Sorry for all the shamans who feel neglected. That is certainly not our intent.

Ghostcrawler

2009-01-14 00:38:54

Re: No dev posts for Shaman

Q u o t e:
Well, the reason for the "of all the Shaman threads, he picks this one" is partly because the last Shaman thread you posted in (to my knowledge), was a hyperbolic QQ "Blizz Hates Shaman" thread, with "and here is where I stopped reading".

Mnevis, fair enough. I used to expend more effort trying to get posters to realize how they let a good thread go bad, but I think it ended up just feeling more negative. We try to just ignore them or lock them now. I really have no interest in forum moderation, though I do want to see these forums be as good as we think they can be.

To be fair though, I did post an awful lot about the Elemental talent tree changes we were working on. Those weren’t specifically PvP issues, though again I try not to tally up where the responses fell.

Q u o t e:
But still, just post where and when you want and don't try to overanalyse where and how to post to best please us. It isn't worth it.

I am a game designer and a recovering scientist. I overanalyze everything. :)

Ghostcrawler