RSS feed2008-08-30 21:49:31
I'm re-posting Pange's post into the beta forums since I believe these forums have a higher developer viewership.
COPY PASTED FROM LIVE FORUMS
The Status Quo
We were promised new mechanics for tanking, and indirectly promised the same for DPS. We were led to believe that our review would have us saying "Wow!" in a similar fashion as Paladin and Hunter changes. Instead we get band-aids, half-baked ideas, and things that fall way short of the mark. I'll be mashing the same four buttons in WotLK as I do now in Black Temple: Maul, Mangle, Lacerate, Swipe. We had to fight tooth and nail to retain Furor's viability. Meanwhile, the Rogue changes are phenomenal, and in the same patch we get a revised early-tier Balance tree that barely even fixes Balance concerns, and instead buffs Resto druids well beyond their already amazing performance. What happened to Ferals, Blizz?
I've been following the Alpha and Beta process extensively, and I have the following concerns:
1) Itemization
The decision to re-approach itemization has hurt Ferals. Cloth wearers were given synergy with Spirit and other healing-oriented stats, Shaman and Hunters were merged gracefully, and Plate-wearing classes were given ridiculously wonderful scaling across the board, for tanking and DPS.
We get Rogue gear with zero strength, armor bonuses, or intellect- where is the synergy with Druid stat scaling?
An example: wearing current arena gear I get around 22k armor in bear form on live, which is WELL below the armor cap. If I were to wear gear with *zero* bonus armor, I'd barely hit 20k. Extrapolate this to WotLK, where the gear will have even less armor in comparison, and fall even further from the armor cap. And yet, we're supposed to tank up through end-game with such stats. There remains no means to address our lack of mitigation AND avoidance. Mother Bear and Natural Reaction do not scale, ever, and they do not even cover our losses, much less provide what we really needed: MORE than what we already have. Our gear will not compensate for this. Our DPS stats don't scale, and never have adequately as proven by the horrible DPS output of endgame Ferals. Our tanking stats used to scale, but no longer do. We have zero itemization for either role in the expansion. Even our very own, class-specific arena set provides less than what we currently have. Where is the idea of progress there? Why are Ferals moving backwards?
2) Tanking, Now and through End Game
As mentioned, the new tanking talents do not scale, ever. The new talents do not solve itemization, mitigation, or avoidance issues beyond non-heroic 5 man dungeons. To augment base Dire Bear abilities and become a dungeon-viable tank (much less heroic dungeon viable), I have to sink 79 points into tanking talents. I have 71 points to allocate. That's without grabbing a single PvP, cat-based, Resto-only, or Balance-only talent: 79 points. To tank raids, or end game, I have to.... what?
Find better gear? (not possible)
Spec with more specialization in mind? (it's not possible to even GET all the tanking talents)
3) Feral PvP
Feral PvP is looking increasingly dismal, and is fixing to be worse than it is in TBC. Infected Wounds, especially considering the new change to Wound Poison, is broken. It should not take me 5 special attacks to achieve what other Melee can do with one single button, ESPECIALLY given our existing problems with attack range. Furor, while great, does not address the heavy shifting penalties we undergo to utilize the things that other classes exclaim to be our big strengths: healing, crowd control, and utility spells. Berserk concerns have not been addressed. It, like every other talent in the Feral tree, looks as if Blizzard has three different cooks in the kitchen, each pulling Feral in a different direction. What else is new for Ferals in PvP? A short-cast heal that effectively costs us five times the mana as any other class because it assumes we have to shift back into a form of some kind to survive afterward?
4) Feral DPS, in Cat and Bear
The additions to the Feral tree do nothing to address Cat Form's utterly pathetic DPS capabilities, especially in regards to the itemization issue. The Tiger's Fury change is PERFECT, but again, it only helps close an already existing DPS gap. Where do we GAIN new strengths, Blizz? Despite the Omen of Clarity change, haste rating does not contribute enough to cat DPS because our white damage remains trivial. We have an over abundance of +hit rating. Agility scaling was nerfed, and there is no Strength on gear to compensate. Which is especially curious considering the new push for Attack power-based abilities like Savage Roar. How will Bear Form attack power scale, if it gains no attack power from Agility?
Rend and Tear buffs an ability that will never see use outside of PvP. Mother Bear provides a *static* attack power bonus to Bear form that is incredibly small given the talent's placement in the Tree. The list goes on. How are Cat druids supposed to close the gap on Rogue DPS? Blizzard is aware that a full-on DPS specced Feral in end-game gear with ideal group synergy pulls around 60% of Hunter, Rogue, and Warlock DPS, right? As in, around a dozen Ferals in the world have achieved that landmark, with the rest of us pulling closer to HALF of a pure DPS classes numbers. We're talking a MAXIMUM of 2000+ DPS compared to classes that achieve over 3000. End Game Ferals can't even out DPS a Ret Paladin or Enhance Shaman, much less a 'pure' damage class. What about non-end game Ferals?
If everyone in the expansion can swap between two different specs (as has been rumored since the beginning), where does our niche of on-the-fly Tank/DPS fit? Should we not be considered a "pure" class, considering our decision to spec a certain way destroys our healing, DPS, tanking, or spell casting viability? Do we not make the same sacrifice as any DPS or Tanking class when we spec for Bear or Cat? We deserve more than 60% performance from our main spec. The days of "pure" and "hybrid" classes have ended, and the rhetoric of Druids under performing due to their "hybrid" nature is a thing of the past. Every class now has a hybrid nature, and every class is allowed to specialize. Why, then, do we under perform?
5) Why Feral?
Where is our group synergy? Why bring a Feral Druid to a raid, when a Balance or Resto druid provides more? In fact, they can more easily cast innervate, battle rezzes, or other utility spells than a Feral Druid. If I'm the Main Tank, my group utility and synergy options are reduced to Leader of the Pack, and the Mangle debuff, both of which are redundant with Warrior abilities. Yet we cannot pummel, silence, knockback, or AoE tank like our tanking counterparts.
If we are supposed to put out *less* DPS than a shadow priest, even when specced for DPS (who are getting their damage, utility, and PvP viability buffed, along with Prot Warriors and Prot Paladins), Tank poorer than any other tanking class, and gain nothing in the way of our already horrid PvP viability, why should we spec Feral? Again, this is not hyperbole; itemization alone forces us into this position, much less the other shortcomings inherent to Ferals.
COPY PASTED FROM LIVE FORUMS
The Status Quo
We were promised new mechanics for tanking, and indirectly promised the same for DPS. We were led to believe that our review would have us saying "Wow!" in a similar fashion as Paladin and Hunter changes. Instead we get band-aids, half-baked ideas, and things that fall way short of the mark. I'll be mashing the same four buttons in WotLK as I do now in Black Temple: Maul, Mangle, Lacerate, Swipe. We had to fight tooth and nail to retain Furor's viability. Meanwhile, the Rogue changes are phenomenal, and in the same patch we get a revised early-tier Balance tree that barely even fixes Balance concerns, and instead buffs Resto druids well beyond their already amazing performance. What happened to Ferals, Blizz?
I've been following the Alpha and Beta process extensively, and I have the following concerns:
1) Itemization
The decision to re-approach itemization has hurt Ferals. Cloth wearers were given synergy with Spirit and other healing-oriented stats, Shaman and Hunters were merged gracefully, and Plate-wearing classes were given ridiculously wonderful scaling across the board, for tanking and DPS.
We get Rogue gear with zero strength, armor bonuses, or intellect- where is the synergy with Druid stat scaling?
An example: wearing current arena gear I get around 22k armor in bear form on live, which is WELL below the armor cap. If I were to wear gear with *zero* bonus armor, I'd barely hit 20k. Extrapolate this to WotLK, where the gear will have even less armor in comparison, and fall even further from the armor cap. And yet, we're supposed to tank up through end-game with such stats. There remains no means to address our lack of mitigation AND avoidance. Mother Bear and Natural Reaction do not scale, ever, and they do not even cover our losses, much less provide what we really needed: MORE than what we already have. Our gear will not compensate for this. Our DPS stats don't scale, and never have adequately as proven by the horrible DPS output of endgame Ferals. Our tanking stats used to scale, but no longer do. We have zero itemization for either role in the expansion. Even our very own, class-specific arena set provides less than what we currently have. Where is the idea of progress there? Why are Ferals moving backwards?
2) Tanking, Now and through End Game
As mentioned, the new tanking talents do not scale, ever. The new talents do not solve itemization, mitigation, or avoidance issues beyond non-heroic 5 man dungeons. To augment base Dire Bear abilities and become a dungeon-viable tank (much less heroic dungeon viable), I have to sink 79 points into tanking talents. I have 71 points to allocate. That's without grabbing a single PvP, cat-based, Resto-only, or Balance-only talent: 79 points. To tank raids, or end game, I have to.... what?
Find better gear? (not possible)
Spec with more specialization in mind? (it's not possible to even GET all the tanking talents)
3) Feral PvP
Feral PvP is looking increasingly dismal, and is fixing to be worse than it is in TBC. Infected Wounds, especially considering the new change to Wound Poison, is broken. It should not take me 5 special attacks to achieve what other Melee can do with one single button, ESPECIALLY given our existing problems with attack range. Furor, while great, does not address the heavy shifting penalties we undergo to utilize the things that other classes exclaim to be our big strengths: healing, crowd control, and utility spells. Berserk concerns have not been addressed. It, like every other talent in the Feral tree, looks as if Blizzard has three different cooks in the kitchen, each pulling Feral in a different direction. What else is new for Ferals in PvP? A short-cast heal that effectively costs us five times the mana as any other class because it assumes we have to shift back into a form of some kind to survive afterward?
4) Feral DPS, in Cat and Bear
The additions to the Feral tree do nothing to address Cat Form's utterly pathetic DPS capabilities, especially in regards to the itemization issue. The Tiger's Fury change is PERFECT, but again, it only helps close an already existing DPS gap. Where do we GAIN new strengths, Blizz? Despite the Omen of Clarity change, haste rating does not contribute enough to cat DPS because our white damage remains trivial. We have an over abundance of +hit rating. Agility scaling was nerfed, and there is no Strength on gear to compensate. Which is especially curious considering the new push for Attack power-based abilities like Savage Roar. How will Bear Form attack power scale, if it gains no attack power from Agility?
Rend and Tear buffs an ability that will never see use outside of PvP. Mother Bear provides a *static* attack power bonus to Bear form that is incredibly small given the talent's placement in the Tree. The list goes on. How are Cat druids supposed to close the gap on Rogue DPS? Blizzard is aware that a full-on DPS specced Feral in end-game gear with ideal group synergy pulls around 60% of Hunter, Rogue, and Warlock DPS, right? As in, around a dozen Ferals in the world have achieved that landmark, with the rest of us pulling closer to HALF of a pure DPS classes numbers. We're talking a MAXIMUM of 2000+ DPS compared to classes that achieve over 3000. End Game Ferals can't even out DPS a Ret Paladin or Enhance Shaman, much less a 'pure' damage class. What about non-end game Ferals?
If everyone in the expansion can swap between two different specs (as has been rumored since the beginning), where does our niche of on-the-fly Tank/DPS fit? Should we not be considered a "pure" class, considering our decision to spec a certain way destroys our healing, DPS, tanking, or spell casting viability? Do we not make the same sacrifice as any DPS or Tanking class when we spec for Bear or Cat? We deserve more than 60% performance from our main spec. The days of "pure" and "hybrid" classes have ended, and the rhetoric of Druids under performing due to their "hybrid" nature is a thing of the past. Every class now has a hybrid nature, and every class is allowed to specialize. Why, then, do we under perform?
5) Why Feral?
Where is our group synergy? Why bring a Feral Druid to a raid, when a Balance or Resto druid provides more? In fact, they can more easily cast innervate, battle rezzes, or other utility spells than a Feral Druid. If I'm the Main Tank, my group utility and synergy options are reduced to Leader of the Pack, and the Mangle debuff, both of which are redundant with Warrior abilities. Yet we cannot pummel, silence, knockback, or AoE tank like our tanking counterparts.
If we are supposed to put out *less* DPS than a shadow priest, even when specced for DPS (who are getting their damage, utility, and PvP viability buffed, along with Prot Warriors and Prot Paladins), Tank poorer than any other tanking class, and gain nothing in the way of our already horrid PvP viability, why should we spec Feral? Again, this is not hyperbole; itemization alone forces us into this position, much less the other shortcomings inherent to Ferals.
[ Post edited by Naroga! ]
Naroga!
