MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Roleplaying Support

2007-09-19 14:19:15

I was very happy to hear that hair stylists are finally appearing in game, but was rather surprised at what the developer in charge of that panel said regarding to the player reaction to that announcement - that he was surprised that people cheered louder for that than many other features.

I have to wonder, what do the developers at Blizzard really think of these "roleplaying" features, and are they really seen as lower priority than adding things to what is no doubt the main focus of the game, the combat system? Cause honestly, and this is just in my opinion - everything in the game is done through the combat system, with the exception of Simon in Blade's Edge, and maybe fishing. And it gets old, after a while. There is a lot of demand for other things. Alternative ways to advance your character that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with improving your character's combat prowess. And I'm not talking about more vanity pets, cute as they may be.

Player housing is a big one. It's been highly desired by a large number of players since before WoW was launched, even. Yet, it's never been anything more than a distant "maybe sometime in the future", and a few unused items in the game files. Having a place of your own to decorate and stash your war trophies and old tier sets in would really, really spice up the game.

How about surnames? It seems like such a simple addition, though I'm sure there's a lot of programming to be done to put it in - but still, it's something that's brought up over and over again. Why is it such low priority when it's something many people clearly want?

A more interactive world is another thing that's often brought up, both in the form of dynamic, GM-run quests (that won't happen - we know!) but also other things, simpler things - like more interesting NPCs. The "world revival project" stopped short after the Barrens redux, whatever happened with that? And why can we only sit on a small percentage of the chairs and benches in game, for example? And why do NPCs not respond to our actions in game?

How about cross-faction communication. Is it time to revisit that topic yet, maybe reevaluate it? The reason that it was made impossible for factions to communicate with each other was because there was a lot of trash talk in the beta, mostly due to PvP. Yet now, we fight our own faction in arenas, where we can freely communicate... and there is not really a problem. The few times it does happen, there's a handy-dandy ignore function. Allowing for cross-faction communication on RP servers at least would do wonders for the roleplaying communities that are often divided and small enough as they are.

I guess my point with all this is, that I do love the game, still. It just feels like roleplaying is never a priority, and all those "maybe in the future"s that so many players so dearly want are never actually coming, since all the developer time goes into "more of the same", so to speak. Are there any hopes that WotLK might bring any more alternative features to support roleplaying and non-combat activities?

Edit: Bornakk gave a reply of sorts in another thread:

Q u o t e:
The answer (assuming this is what you were requesting) is the same as what we have giving player-housing in the past. We would enjoy adding more of these types of things but we have no current plans to do so, though it is possible in the future.

The avenue for changes, updates, and improvements regarding roleplaying is the same as everything else, but as usual if we don't have anything new to add we likely won't say anything.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5103804737&sid=1&pageNo=2

Edit 2: Lagren made a list of everyone who posted positive comments in support of this thread. Most of these people brought new ideas to the thread, too.

http://www.freewebs.com/thegrandlist/

[ Post edited by Nataszja ]

Nataszja

2008-10-06 12:20:28

Re: Roleplaying Support

You can't blame them for it being a bit of a surprise. Believe it or not, we can't always anticipate the full reaction people might have to a feature we think will be cool to add. ;)

We've stated before that player housing is a consideration for some point in the future, but it would need to be thought out carefully and would want to maximize their usefullness. As always, suggestions are welcome in the Suggestion Forum.

Surnames are another thing we've said are a possibility at some point in time. Just keep in mind that with many things, there are often technical considerations that come into play as well as time tables that must be considered. We need to take a look at how much work it would take and how much time it would take and weigh that in with all of the other features that we want to add into the game or improve upon.

We've been working to add more touches into the interactivity of quests, the world, and atmosphere overall wherever we can. You'll find more seating added in within various areas. You'll find some larger more welcoming inns in some areas, or even just open spaces that allow for RPers to gather in.

In Dalaran, you'll get to experience added touches such as a toy shop, the Barbershop, and pet store. There are more touches than that you will experience as you explore Northrend.

While you're right in that we can't do big GM run events without considerable resources, we have been continuing to push and add in as many interesting touches as we can to continue to bring the world alive.

Again, we'd ask that you post suggestions in the Suggestions Forum and please keep in mind that everything we do involves a lot of thought and planning so while it may be a great idea, it might not be something we can do right away due to other priorities.

Words make visions where thought lives and gives them life.

Nethaera

2008-10-07 18:24:34

Re: Roleplaying Support

Just as a sidenote...

Players are often concerned that the development team is unfamiliar with a given aspect of play. While it's been assured in the past that we participate in both PvP and PvE, I believe it's also worth noting that the role playing community is also represented among the designers. ;)

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani

2008-10-07 20:05:42

Re: Roleplaying Support

Q u o t e:
I understand you can't do full scale live events, but why not implement a guide system like Everquest had?

Why couldn't players in good standing apply to become pseudo-GMs? They would be able to run very small one-off events for small groups of players. They could award small amounts of XP or gold.

The events wouldn't be anything major, just small things that add flavor and make playing feel more interactive.

I'll never forget the first time I went to attack a Gnoll in EQ and it cowered in fear and begged me not to kill it. It was a GM and it turned into a small event for my group that involved helping the Gnoll defect to the major city. The whole thing lasted about 20 minutes and it was amazingly fun.

Please understand I am intimately familiar with how these sorts of programs work, and to be frank, the concept simply doesn't scale well enough to be feasible in a game like WoW. Volunteers lack accountability, and if you give them any manner of tools to perform live events the possibility for abuse is immense. The more people you have in a program like this, the higher chance there's one bad apple who will ruin it for hundreds if not thousands of players. Quality is extremely difficult to monitor properly in a volunteer situation as well, and naturally we'd want the events to be the best we could deliver. And that's not even getting into the legal concerns of the possibility.

Even aside from the accountability and quality issues, the overall tool maintenance, upkeep, and support for such a program tends to be far more trouble than it's worth when compared to the overall impact on the playerbase. I've experienced live events, and I understand the appeal -- you can never quite replace the feel of a live actor responding to what you say and do, and it's very enticing. There's the potential for quite a bit of trouble behind the scenes for such things, though, particularly with volunteers.

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani

2008-10-07 22:26:21

Re: Roleplaying Support

Q u o t e:

I understand. WoW does have a much larger player base than EQ ever did, so I can see how it could be a logistical nightmare.

That said, is there any reason actual paid GMs can't run such small events for players? Or does it come back to it being more trouble than it's worth?

A few, actually. While they do occasionally interact with players, it's one thing to do that and quite another to have the tools to set up an event; different tools would be needed. It would also take away from customer service response time, as it's quite a time commitment even for one of these little events, and that's time they're not taking tickets and helping players who need help. Lastly, while we have wonderful GMs, the skillset to be an actor in an event like this is not necessarily the same as the skillset needed for customer service, though there is some overlap.

The sacrifice in quality of customer service for the entire playerbase isn't really worth the relatively small benefit such events can provide.

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani

2008-10-07 22:35:12

Re: Roleplaying Support

I promise you, this is something we've gone over time and again, from many different angles, and the result is always the same: the time, resources, and hurdles involved simply aren't worth the relatively minor effect live events have on the playerbase at large. You won't be seeing live events in WoW.

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani

2008-10-07 22:43:31

Re: Roleplaying Support

Q u o t e:

How about more scripted ones then, especially with the lich king releasing, theres a whole new possibility for undead monsters to start appearing in mass numbers around Azeroth and northrend alike.

You don't say. :)

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani

2008-10-07 23:21:42

Re: Roleplaying Support

In brief, because I've gone over this elsewhere before: the concept of live events with live actors does not scale well. It works better in situations where there are few servers to field. Why? Because a small number of skilled actors can make a pretty big splash in the grand scheme of things. As the number of world instances (servers, realms, what have you) increases, the logistics of resources, manpower, scheduling and the like begin to get more complicated and much, much harder to manage, and it doesn't scale at the same rate with the number of servers. The rate is much worse and it gets very hairy very quickly. And if you decide to go with the same small number of actors, the amount of impact such a program has is pretty much infinitesimal. In either case, weighed against the development time for tools, manpower, training, and managerial needs, it simply isn't logical on this scale.

Also, I realize I'm posting a lot now, but this is just to clear up one of my old saws, as it were. On a more general note, we on the design team (hi) know about the concerns and desires of the role playing community. Now as with any time, it always, always comes to priority and what will be the most fun for the most amount of people, but we do keep these concerns in mind when making new content, most certainly. Just don't fall into the trap of calling any change "simple." ;)

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani

2008-10-08 17:36:41

Re: Roleplaying Support

On the subject of live events: No. We won't be doing them. I have already given the reasoning. This really isn't up for debate, and all of the hypothetical situations you're bringing up have been considered already.

On the subject of role playing concerns in general: do keep them coming. Understand that I'm not going to give a yes or no on them in general, and that it will always come down to priority, but we're not deaf to what you're after.

[ Post edited by Kisirani ]

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani

2008-10-08 18:55:01

Re: Roleplaying Support

I want to make something pretty clear here, because I think you're getting the wrong idea.

I'm not going to respond to each and every issue you bring up. Please don't count on that.

If you're looking for enforcement of policy, asking a designer is not what you should be doing. That is a matter for the GM department and the Suggestions Forum.

I will say, however, as someone who had input on the original role playing policies, that you cannot expect a role playing policy to be enforced in a draconian way. Role playing is always, always subjective, and it is primarily up to the community of the realms in question to determine what is and is not acceptable within those subjective bounds. We are not going to require people to role play, and there's really no way to do that in the rules. That is why the policies are reactive as they are; they are meant to allow the communities to determine what is permissible within the rules we've set. You have the ability to police your realm, and if you're unhappy with the current state of things -- if you feel people speak out of character too often, or if you dislike the number of names that clearly violate policy on your realm -- then the power is within your hands to make those changes. Learn the policies and make informed reports. Results may be slow, but they'll happen.

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani

2008-10-08 19:47:57

Re: Roleplaying Support

I disagree with your assessment of the state of role playing realms as a whole. This may be your personal experience, but it is not the case everywhere. If you wish for your realm to have the policies enforced, then the players upon it will need to report according to policy, and follow the procedures for reporting laid out in that selfsame policy. As long as you understand what is and is not a violation according to the rules and report in an informed fashion, you'll see results.

The policies are reactive due to the subjective nature of role play, and that isn't likely to change. You will likely not see proactive enforcement of chat channel content anytime soon.

However, I already gave you the appropriate place to direct your policy concerns. I would much rather you go through those channels than ask me to circumvent them. They're in place for a reason, and I told you where to direct your concerns about it for that selfsame reason.

Understand that a lack of blue posters responding in the Suggestion Forum does not mean the forum is useless. The Suggestion Forum is read by the people you want to reach, my team included.

[ Post edited by Kisirani ]

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani

2008-10-08 20:11:47

Re: Roleplaying Support

Role playing is a legitimate and supported part of our game; if it was not, we would not have rules and specific realms for it, and it's that simple. I care about role players as do many of the people behind the game, but as role playing is subjective, at some point you do have to put some of the responsibility for enforcement in the hands of the communities of the realms.

Posting on the Suggestions Forum is the best way to get heard, not asking me personally.

Oh, and the email address is actually wowgmfeedback-us@blizzard.com.

[ Post edited by Kisirani ]

Your friendly neighborhood World Designer.
"The basic molecular structure of your little friend is still vastly compromised. Hand me that staple gun."

Kisirani