Feed RSS RSS feed
[bug] Ignite subject to partial resists

Q u o t e:
3/26 06:09:53.120 SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000007C6EA2,"Zaldinar",0x511,0xF1300079AA0018EA,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,42859,"Scorch",0x4,1942,0,4,267,0,0,1,nil,nil
3/26 06:09:55.955 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000007C6EA2,"Zaldinar",0x511,0xF1300079AA0018EA,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,388,0,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
3/26 06:09:57.957 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000007C6EA2,"Zaldinar",0x511,0xF1300079AA0018EA,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,349,0,4,39,0,0,nil,nil,nil



For the uninitiated to the inner workings of combat logs and ignite, that shows the following:

Scorch 1942 crit, 267 resisted
Ignite Tick 388
Ignite Tick 349, 39 resisted


Expected ignite damage was 1942 * 0.4 / 2 = 388.4 per tick (meaning either 388 or 389 are valid results due to the way WoW rounds display values and damage done). So all of it adds up, except for that the ignite was partially resisted. This does **NOT** happen on live.


Before the same arguments that came to the surface back in the day when Ignite was reduced by Resil (which it used to be, and no longer is as of the middle of BC), lets do the gambit...



"Immolate has a chance to be partially resisted, then the DoT can be partially resisted too!"

Warlocks like to bring this one up. The problem is that the DoT is not based on the base damage. They can be resisted independently, but a partial resist of the DD portion does not reduce the damage of the DoT portion. That is, assuming that you lose 5% damage from partial resists, your damage can be:

250.0 DD No Resist, 100 DoT No Resist
237.5 DD With Resist, 100 DoT No Resist
250.0 DD No Resist, 95 DoT With Resist
237.5 DD With Resist, 95 DoT With Resist


The problem with comparing this to ignite is if we apply the same scenario we see the double dip effect:

250.00 DD No Resist, 100.00 DoT No Resist
237.50 DD With Resist, **95.00 DoT No Resist**
250.00 DD No Resist, 95.00 DoT With Resist
237.50 DD With Resist, **90.25 DoT With Resist**


When both the initial and DoT damage are subject to partial resists, you lose more damage than you should comparatively to all other effects. This is a situation unique to ignite and cannot be compared to Immolate or other spells where the DD and DoT values behave independently.



"It should be reduced twice, that is exactly how it should behave!"

There has never been a good justification for this argument put forth by anyone. Just a lot of 'but, but, but, but...'. It shouldn't be unless it is an intended double reduction specifically on fire mages, which I doubt.



"Its such a small amount, why do you care?"

Because ignite is intended to be a 40% multiplier to fire mage critical strikes. I argue against any effect that increases or decreases it from that value, to include correct documentation and reporting of ignite bugs and mechanics ( http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=106669217 ), some of which benefit us.

[ Post edited by Zaldinar ]


To truly model the game, we first must research it.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=109841969
Proven TheoryCrafting Stuff, chain casting in a PTR near you soon.
Avatar of Zaldinar
Zaldinar
Re: [bug] Ignite subject to partial resists

Q u o t e:



For the uninitiated to the inner workings of combat logs and ignite, that shows the following:

Scorch 1942 crit, 267 resisted
Ignite Tick 388
Ignite Tick 349, 39 resisted


Expected ignite damage was 1942 * 0.4 / 2 = 388.4 per tick (meaning either 388 or 389 are valid results due to the way WoW rounds display values and damage done). So all of it adds up, except for that the ignite was partially resisted. This does **NOT** happen on live.


Before the same arguments that came to the surface back in the day when Ignite was reduced by Resil (which it used to be, and no longer is as of the middle of BC), lets do the gambit...



"Immolate has a chance to be partially resisted, then the DoT can be partially resisted too!"

Warlocks like to bring this one up. The problem is that the DoT is not based on the base damage. They can be resisted independently, but a partial resist of the DD portion does not reduce the damage of the DoT portion. That is, assuming that you lose 5% damage from partial resists, your damage can be:

250.0 DD No Resist, 100 DoT No Resist
237.5 DD With Resist, 100 DoT No Resist
250.0 DD No Resist, 95 DoT With Resist
237.5 DD With Resist, 95 DoT With Resist


The problem with comparing this to ignite is if we apply the same scenario we see the double dip effect:

250.00 DD No Resist, 100.00 DoT No Resist
237.50 DD With Resist, **95.00 DoT No Resist**
250.00 DD No Resist, 95.00 DoT With Resist
237.50 DD With Resist, **90.25 DoT With Resist**


When both the initial and DoT damage are subject to partial resists, you lose more damage than you should comparatively to all other effects. This is a situation unique to ignite and cannot be compared to Immolate or other spells where the DD and DoT values behave independently.



"It should be reduced twice, that is exactly how it should behave!"

There has never been a good justification for this argument put forth by anyone. Just a lot of 'but, but, but, but...'. It shouldn't be unless it is an intended double reduction specifically on fire mages, which I doubt.



"Its such a small amount, why do you care?"

Because ignite is intended to be a 40% multiplier to fire mage critical strikes. I argue against any effect that increases or decreases it from that value, to include correct documentation and reporting of ignite bugs and mechanics ( http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=106669217 ), some of which benefit us.


Thanks for the report, we'll look into this.
Dresorull
Blizzard QA
Avatar of Dresorull
Dresorull